Were the stunning visuals a HUGE trade off for everything else?

Hardly surprising really when you think about translating what little movement a games controller stick provides into motion in the sims aircraft controls. Even a joystick is insufficient in my opinion for flying helis in a sim, the cyclic sensitivity is fine when cruising but in a hover the inputs are tiny and a near 1-1 control input makes life soooo much easier.

I have been wishing for a lifetime of simming that developers would include “templates” for various control configurations that are good, basic starting points. Say an “FSX” template for MSFS2020, or a “Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog” template for those who have those.

But I understand the problem with geometric growth of testing issues and edge cases that could occur by doing same, so it’s probably best left for people to discover and share.

The DCS community has been excellent along those lines; I hope the forum here will stay positive and productive enough that people will be helpful like that here, too. It takes quite a bit of effort, but people are surprisingly good at putting that effort in to help others, when the overall tone of a forum is positive.

Part of it isn’t just the sensitivity, but the curve, the damping… it’s a far more complex issue than most realize.


Nope, I’m neither exaggerating or lying. My sensitivity and dead zones are giving me the best I’m gonna get. Oh, and by the way, I don’t appreciate being called a liar.

Yes, old habits. I totally agree.

Great input Joanne. Spot on.

I actually do have some experience in a Cessna 172. Also, on every previous version (I own every one ever released) I’ve always flown with the flight model realism maxed out. So I have to disagree.

Exactly this. Many don’t understand how planes fly, how lift is generated, how thermals and wind create changes on the lift and stability of an aircraft. Unfortunately, I see many complaints claiming something to be wrong when in fact it is being simulated correctly as you would experience in the real plane.

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This is sort of a ouroboros situation: Since so many things are slightly or completely broken, it’s really easy to make the assumption that something not working is a(nother) bug.

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Agreed - the problem is when people assuming something is broken, they’re asserting it as if they know the plane inside an out.

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Preface/Disclaimer: I do not blame the MSFS development team, they are only doing what this flight sim community wants/asks for.

The OP is correct - I have seen this for decades in this flight sim industry, they ALL do it, because this community lets them. I want MSFS to be great, but it will not be, because this community settles for less all the time. When we do get something good we pay for it too many times and its way over priced in the name of licensing or some other excuse.

Somethings for all to consider is, how many more times will we be compelled to buy (or go somewhere else for) a:

  • 737
  • C182
  • KSFO
  • A weather package and textures for it
  • An ATC package
  • A flight planner
  • and on and on and on…

Take a look at MSFS default EGGC and how terrible the terminal looks (apartment buildings!!!), all for Orbx to compel us to buy EGGC (on day 1) for some possibly 3rd or 4th time! Shouldn’t simmers be sick and tired of this?

Why 2 C152’s when this MSFS community has been crying out for a decent 757 for decades. Does anybody remember how LONG we were promised a decent 757 and NEVER got it !?! Does anybody remember the ARBITRARY price of $[75.7]0 for a 757 that still falls short of value?

Yes many things in MSFS LOOK good, but so much in MSFS needs to ACT good. Are these things being purposely made to be bad so we are compelled to buy the same add-ons over and over?

Everybody has to carefully consider this. Why aren’t add-on developers being compelled to move on to greater things, or is the NG3 going to have all circuit breakers functioning correctly? What is truly different about EGGC this time around, that simmers have to buy it again? Oh it’s because it took work to make it compatible with MSFS - YES we know, but aren’t there new simmers who will buy it to compensate for the cost? Isn’t buying the exact same thing twice enough??? Then when a new EGGC comes out next year it too will have a price tag, yet we still are waiting for other airports. MSFS was supposed to take care of the need for add-on airports, or is that reserved for 80 years from now? Who decides this? Don’t the consumers decide this? They do, and this community decides to overpay for the same thing several times, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.

How can this community decide that seasons are not that important? Well they did and do. XP has survived and grew without seasons, so the MSFS team says seasons are not that important, and develop a flight sim without consulting the community, there was no need to consult, XP was very successful. Now seasons are important - I was one of (if not) the first to protest about the lack of seasons in MSFS (Avsim forums) …its common sense to me, aviation and seasons have so much to do with one another.

So in essence at present we have a nice screenshot taking apparatus.

I know there are a bunch of people who will continue to make excuses for this stagnant situation for the sake of patience or “group think”. So, how long will it take for any developer to work on live volcanic activity, or a NOTAMS system, even Pilot Controlled Lighting, HOW LONG!!! Never because this community submits to the waiting/stagnation that we have always been doing.

I truly believe the trade off is there on purpose - it has to be, so the waiting/stagnation game can continue for at least another 30 years. This is what the community wants- it wants to wait.

There was a time when development was fast, features all around were added, visuals, fidelity, everything. But ever since FS2002 this progress began to decline in speed, quality, and features. Graphics (for the sake of screenshots) continues to be at the forefront, but aviation realism has been on the back burner for a long time in comparison.

Microsoft Photography Simulator is what we have. Next thing we know airplanes will be omitted but a nice drone will be provided.


Such as? I fly in real life and can tell you that there is much that is wrong at the moment…

  • live wx clouds are on the ground
  • Black lines at random places on the terrain / sea
  • scenery objects keep popping up fsx autogen style
  • LOD area too small

also, in what other sim you have to actually close your flight in order to change A/C and/or airport… that is the worst joke of them all.

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I too fly. CPL with CFII, typical complaints with controls not feeling right in certain aircrafts, climb rates, feathering etc. There is quite a ways to go, that I do not question. That said, a realization needs to be made that any sim can only provide so much in terms of sim-user translation. A large example being home desktop users not having force-feedback. Not being able to understand the forces on your yoke or joystick and airframe, you react differently (even if you don’t notice it) than you would, say in a Level-D simulator. Often times I have noticed the lack of understanding a specific aircrafts capabilities and specifications, or comparing them to “how X or Y simulator” feels leads to these faux issues being misconstrued as bugs.

The best experience you could aim for is finding the aircraft specific POH and understanding its limitations and capabilities before saying “X is not right” or “Y doesn’t work this way in Z simulator”.

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Many, but not all, of the autopilot problems are actually airplane specific.

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Changing aircraft\ location\airports in the sim you can do this
[How To] Change Aircraft and Teleport In Sim

For lod you can do this
PSA: LOD Slider Can Be Increased Past 200 - Dramatically Improves Photogrammatery

The worst joke is loading the game, then have to wait, then screen pops up, hit space bar to begin, then wait again, then load into Xbox style UI, go through menus that have hard to find stuff to setup flight, set everything, load again, finally flying but have to wait for cinematic or hit another key or button, fly, crash wait for pop up box for crash, reload start all over.

No chance in game to change plane, and spawn where u started while loaded in memory…

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If you turn on the Developer Panel in the Settings. You’ll have that top bar in-game. And there you can change airplanes mid-air.

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No curves are required if you have a 1-1 RW control to flight sim control ratio and the flight modelling is correct. The best controls try to get as close to this as possible. This is one of the pros for the Honeycomb and why its so popular, its 180 degrees of roll rotation matches the aircraft yolk range of rotation.