What are the requirements of the sim, to log a take off and a landing?

Well done that man! I will give it another go today and see if I can’t get a result.

So, you chose parking spot 30. Did the sim chose runway 14 by putting the taxi ribbons in place without any interaction from you? or did you chose runway 14 from the ATC menu and anounce your intention to taxi?

When I tried, the wind was 220 at 11kt I think and so i chose runway 24. I didn’t see taxi markings but I had changed to the subtle mod by then and maybe I missed them.

What do I need to do to see that objectives window? It’s not showing up for me despite enabling it.

I start flying every day from a nearby uncontrolled airport. As far as I have ever seen, the ATC item to select a runway for takeoff only affects the runway stated in a subsequent announce taxi to the runway. It never affects the taxi ribbon we see, which apparently is set when loading the flight and cannot be changed, but must be followed and extinguished to get the takeoff logged.

The departure taxi ribbon seems to always lead to the runway that the World Map logic has determined will be used for takeoff. The World Map has a solid blue line from the parking spot to the start of the runway that the World Map logic has demanded be used for takeoff.

Well it’s obvious that what you have said here is absolutely crucial information and clearly explains, if true, why so many of my departures from un-towered airfields are never logged.

Just to get this straight, you are saying that the taxi route that the sim wants you to take is visible on the world map prior to entering the flight? presumably when zoomed in fully? I honestly have never noticed this.

Out of interest, me and my partner learned we’ve both got COVID yesterday. Full PCR test result.

Yeah, no real reason for mentioning that, but I feel quite rubbish this morning and just wanted to tell someone…anyone really. :sneezing_face:

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The World Map does not have all the turns and taxiways that the taxi ribbon provides, but when you zoom in the World Map does have a straight blue line from the parking space to the stat of the runway it expects (demands) that you use for takeoff.

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Just been looking into this in the sim and I can see what you are talking about now.

Using Goodwood as an example, no matter what live weather is saying and no matter what preset weather and wind layer I add, if you start on a ramp, cold and dark, the sim insists you use Runway 32 for take off.

This to me is a major issue for un-towered airports. If you want to use live weather and hence take off from the logical runway choice for the weather conditions, and you want to start on a ramp cold and dark, you will have to accept that unless the weather happens to agree with MSFS’s choice of runway (which for Goodwood happens to be the longest runway and not the runway most frequently used IRL) then it won’t be logged as a take off.

I guess I will have to accept that, because I am not going to fly MSFS’s runway choice if the wind happens to be behind me.

Quick Edit.

Just noticed that Hobanagerik’s test yesterday didn’t match what I just saw on the global map this morning. The global map just showed a line from ramp to runway 32 threshold then straight up runway 32 and into the air.

Hobanagerik’s taxi path ribbon led him onto the entry point of runway 24 and triggered the next objective. This tells me that perhaps the Global Map and the taxi ribbons dont really correlate.

Guess we need to look into this a little bit further before making a judgement.

I didn’t choose the runway. The exact sequence was battery on, avionics on, open ATC dialogue, choose option 1 “Announce taxi”.

I then completed the startup, and as I pivoted around, the taxiway ribbon appeared.

You don’t see it on the map, only when spawned. It appears when you have announced you want to taxi at an uncontrolled field, or when you have requested taxi at a controlled field.

It’s available via the top menu. It appears as a stack of horizontal lines. You may have hidden if it you cannot see it, and if so it can be restored via the icon furthest to the right.

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So basically, because I entered the ATC menu and scrolled down and chose a runway first, then scrolled back up and advised intention to taxi, I went against the sim’s decision and despite using the same entry point as you, my flight didn’t get logged.

Is that what you think?

No, I think you are confusing the blue lines in the map screen as taxi way makers. They aren’t, they are just showing the route you have loaded, but probably complicated by the fact they messed up VFR flight planning by including some IFR procedures, even if your route is direct.

That line is a depiction of your route. It is showing a line to the runway as I think it shoehorns in some IFR procedures ie a departure, and approach procedure into VFR direct plans.

Taxiway assistance markers can only be seen when actually in the sim, and not on the map screen.

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Yes, I appreciate now that the global map isn’t a taxi way guide (it isnt detailed enough but it does seem to indicate a runway to use) but forgetting that for now, I mean, you did exactly what the sim told you to do by just announcing taxi intent and then followed the markers to the runway entry point the sim had chosen for you.

This, whilst obviously working, isn’t optimal or simulating real life operation at an un-towered airport. Would you agree?

I believe the runway assigned, or at least used, matched the wind conditions at the time i.e. runway 14. As for the route to get there, I could have turned left on to runway 32, then back taxied up to runway 14.

I don’t have LNM at work, and my image above doesn’t show the threshold for 32, but I assume there is a way on to 32 at its threshold.

The route it assigned to me worked, but ending up tying up two runways instead of one, so perhaps less optimal than it could have been.

I might run another test tonight, repeating the above, but then take my own route to the runway selected, just to see at what point it detects I have entered the runway, shown by the Objectives window flipping from taxi to the edge of the runway over to contact ATC for takeoff clearance.

Well if you’re right and the sim assigns taxi ways and runways to suit the current sim weather conditions, I would have to agree, that would be the sim working perfectly.

I will test all this later today, using the objective window, taxi way ribbons and several un-towered airfields and report my findings. I hope you’re right but suspect the sim has one predetermined route out of an un-towered airfield, regardless of the prevailing weather.

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I will try that also. I will spawn with live weather, note the wind, then instead of choosing option 1 I will first choose a contradictory runway via option 9(?), and then choose option 1 to announce taxi to see where the taxi assists guide me.

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It’s also more or less lenient depending on what it’s for. I’ve found for logbooks, I have to come to a full stop, and take off properly from one end. Even then, it doesn’t always register. But for counting different airports landed at and such, it seems to be much more lenient. Even landing once you’ve just taken off counts.

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Boy is this a fast learning curve.

Using the Objectives window is a revelation. It feels a little like it is an aid for rookie simmers (which it is of course) but when it comes to the whole point of this thread, it really makes it obvious what is required to get a logged take off (I think as other have pointed out, landings will log no matter how you get it on the runway)

So far my limited tests, carried out this morning at Bourne Airfield nr Cambridge EGSN have shown me that, no matter which departure runway you choose, the taxi ribbon leads you to the same place. A point, just past the threshold of runway 06. The cool thing is that, from here, when the taxi ribbon has been “extinguished” as so eloquently put by AviatorCSnet, you can continue to taxi to any of the four possible runway thresholds.

You can then continue your take off as you planned, in the direction you have chosen and previously announced to ATC, and the sim will acknowledge your next call to ATC advising of your take off and allow you to trigger the take off objectives.

There are so many permutations to test, even at a simple un towered airfield like Bourne i.e. Different wind directions, different chosen departure runways, different taxi routes that I haven’t tested all but a handful of them but…I think, the sim will offer you one taxi route to a generic point in the airfield, and as long as you “extinguish” the taxi ribbon route given to you by the sim (as original pointed out by aviatorCSnet), you’re good to go.

Obviously, this will be different for every un-towered airfield and it may or may not offer a different taxi route dependant on wind direction (but I think not) and will need further experimentation.

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Its like peeking behind the curtain! I have been using that since last year, and was the reason I created that post I linked to that outlined almost all of the different stages the Objectives window can go through.

If anyone is ignorant of the Objectives window, telling you what the sim expects you to be doing, it can lead to confusion as to what is going on, and why with regard to flight logging.

To be honest, I don’t even use it any more unless I am testing something like this. I just use the ATC dialogue, knowing what I have to do to make the flights log correctly. Stick to that, and its difficult to go wrong.

As to its realism, that’s a different conversation. :slight_smile:

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Yeah, thanks for the help. The objectives window has indeed, enlightened me.

I went back to Goodwood again. This time I set weather for an 11kt wind blowing straight down runway 24. I started up, notified of my intention to taxi to runway 24. You don’t see the taxi ribbon until a few secs after you start moving which threw me last time. This time the sim set me a taxi route South East, alongside runway 32/14. It plopped me on the threshold of runway 32 (ooo-kay) Objectives asked me to contact ATC to advise take-off. I taxied back up 32, turned right onto 24, went 3/4 of the way to the 24 threshold (not all the way. might be important) turned 180 Deg and hit the take off button in ATC. My sim voice then announced that I would be taking off from runway 06! Anyway, did the take off on 24, checked the objective boxes, went to Bognor Regis, landed and flight fully logged. Yay!

Bit of a pain being taken to the wrong runway threshold but Hey Ho, still got the flight logged which is why we are all reading this.

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It’s been a while since my 1st post on this topic a couple of days ago, so let me repeat this part:

I can vouch that since using FS2020 in September 2020, if you depart an uncontrolled airport without first extinguishing the taxi to runway ribbon, your takeoff will NEVER be logged. If I have selected another runway for takeoff, I still have to taxi to and extinguish whatever ribbon the sim generates to some other runway, and then taxi to my selected runway.

It bears repeating that when I need to use runway 29 and the sim is demanding that I take off using runway 11 with a tailwind, I actually taxi to the start of runway 11, extinguish the taxi ribbon, and then taxi to runway 29 at the other end.

I do this every single time I am assigned the wrong runway because I would rather do that than not get the takeoff logged. :slight_smile:

UPDATE: Just need to add that this is a 1 runway uncontrolled airport and the sim sometimes demands runway 29 and sometimes demands runway 11, and the demanded runway usually corresponds with the wind direction shown in the World Map, but that wind direction may or may not correspond with the actual live weather happening a minute later when it’s ready to fly.

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Keeping it simple, lets have 10kts coming from 060, exactly lining up with runway 06. I’ve started from parking 30 again:

I’ve deliberately picked the wrong runway:

Screenshot 2021-11-02 203831

When I spun around, and got to this point the taxiway markers appeared:

image

It has instead sent me to runway 32:

I opted to take a shortcut to 32:

Screenshot 2021-11-02 204519

Objectives did correctly flip, indicating that takeoff should now be logged.

image

The interesting thing here is that when I spawned in with live weather it was reporting 340@12, so this runway would be the correct one to use if I still had live weather on. It looks like the taxiway assist is perhaps locked to what the live weather was, rather than what you custom weather is.

LNM METAR seems to agree, with 350@07:

image

Switching back to live weather, and looking at the windsock, it seems to match. The runway to the right is 32:

Below illustrates an unrelated problem. I landed back on 32, taxied off to the left, then announced I was clear of the runway. Objective window changes to end the flight, as it should:

image

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image

If I want now, I can just shut the plane down to get both the takeoff, and the landing at the same airport to log.

But if I want to do it properly, and taxi to one of the parking spots, I cannot re-enter any runway as it will then change the objectives window to assume that I want to take off again. That means I have to do this:

Screenshot 2021-11-02 210034

For single runways, this isn’t too much of an issue, and for those with a cross shape as this one is, mostly, you can do this too. But if you land at one of those airports where there are three runways in a triangle, and for some reason taxi into the inside of the airfield it makes it impossible to get to parking with re-entering a runway:

Screenshot 2021-11-02 210442

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