What I Learned About Flying. A2A Comanche

I have an idea for a new thread, one I hope the community will find entertaining and participate in. Self evaluation.

One of the things I got used to back in my real flying training days, was a thorough debrief by my ex RAF flying instructor.
This happened around the point when he stopped telling me how to fly, and the silences grew longer as he went from instructing to monitoring and advising.
Gone were the instances of slapping my hand away from the flap switch during slow, safe cruise training because my hand wandered towards it at an indicated 82mph, not the briefed 80mph.
For my instructor " flying by the numbers" was a very serious business.
Every aspect of the flight was noted cryptically on his knee board and at the debrief, reinspected and gone through with a view to what I thought went well, what went
badly and why.

Completely non judgemental, it taught me to understand my thought processes, evaluate them and learn from them.

My Scenario.

Yesterday, I had an “interesting” flight in my tired A2A Comanche, bought sight unseen from an ebay ad. All I knew was the annual was current and the engine compressions were recently checked by Lydd Aero Services and found to be in limits. The aircraft had also been given a recent, non invasive inspection.
I caught the bus to Lydd aerodrome with the intention of flying my new purchase
back to leeds bradford airport.

Last night, safely in the comfort of my armchair, beer in hand, I went through the flight in my mind and noted the things I did right, the things I did completely wrong and the grey areas of misjudgement.
Of course, this being a PC game, I would have been a little more stringent in real life than on here, but I reckon the flight in question is fairly typical of sim flights in MSFS.

I welcome insights and constructive critisism from fellow simmers and I hope other simmers will post their own “interesting” flights and conclusions on here for everyone to learn something from.

Remember, even in a sim, it is far different dealing with a rapidly escalating situation at the time, than sitting at a keyboard pontificating afterwards. The community must understand that first and foremost.

Those flying gods who we mere mortals strive to emulate, those who never put a foot wrong and who are never slow to ridicule and criticise from the comfort of an armchair will kill this fledgling thread stone dead. No one will want to come forward to share their stories. This is intended to be non judgemental.

So please be diplomatic, keep your comments constructive for the benefit of all, remembember, you were not there and will probably have reacted differently in the same situation and any in-sim bugs that were a causal factor in the situation can be mentioned, not for knocking the devs, but as a link in the chain towards disaster.

Going flying now. Probably be back later in the day to tell the tale of the flight that made me think of starting this thread. I hope many will participate.

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I flew the COmanche too, back in 2020, relatively shortly after it came out.
Did an over water leg, was quite tense, cause I knew failures could happen any time. Constant vigilance, sharp contrast to the “youtube in the other screen” flying in most other planes.
Was finally feet dry after 30 minutes, and prepared for landing. Started decent, everything looks great. A little low on the glideslop, so I add a little power… Or so I though… No reaction to the throttle! Ok, quick mental checklist, I was low and slow, so no time to find and read checklists. Engine power low, but not gone, what are likely culprits? Checked mixture, engine seemed to respons, but didn’t give me enough power to keep my speed. Sounded like she was choking, (ahem), so, how do I get more air to the engine when throttle isn
t helping? Ah, carb ice! Gotta have froze over on descent, when the engine bay was cooler. Added carb heat, and after a few sputtery seconds, she roared to life! I continued my descent, and landed. Badly shaken, but lesson well learned!

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I look forward to your debrief :slight_smile:
I tend to try and fly realistically though I admit I only had a rec aviation certificate for two seaters. So, most of the aircraft, procedures and conditions I fly in sim I didn’t experience in real life so I know I make mistakes. I’m attempting to rectify that.

An example. I was flying towards YSSY in FS24 and there was what looked like a front approaching from straight ahead with some parts having a fair bit of vertical development with showers in some parts. Verticality and showers weren’t near the airport itself.

Heading to the airport I was under some cumulus with no real verticality and only picking up what I judged to be light turbulence with a maybe moderate bump on occasion but seeing what appeared to be a front was approaching and not far away I slowed to Va+20kts. I didn’t go all the way to Va because of the actual conditions but I slowed in case I got something bigger when I got near the front and ready to drop throttle more.

I’d be interested to know what people with real weather experience would have done. Gone to straight to Va? Not slowed at all until bumps got worse?

Going by my logger, Gs hit 1.4 once and 1.3 a couple of times. So, not huge. It’s difficult to judge turbulence in sim because we can’t feel it. The only turbulence I had in real life was from a hot summers day with no clouds in the sky at all. :slight_smile:

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Atledrier.

Yes carb ice is more prevalent at low throttle settings due to the higher pressure differential on each side of the throttle butterfly.
Same effect letting compressed air from a cylinder, the valve will quickly frost over.

Carb ice can be a thing up to air temps of +25C depending on humidity. You lived to tell the tale and did not bend the aircraft, so all good. A good learning opportunity.

I was taught to always give a healthy blast of carb heat just prior to commencing my descent to warm the throttle butterfly and carb body to get rid of any ice already present and stave it off for a bit longer.

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Yep, I learned that too! :slight_smile:

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I took off in my J160 (one of seven owners) on a pretty warm summers day and at about 200 feet the engine was started running rough as anything. I shallowed the climb and after a few seconds tried carbi-heat. It wasn’t until sometime in crosswind before it smoothed out and sounding fine.

I aborted my trip though because I had used carbi-heat on the ground during taxi and of course the check during runup. I logged it for the LAME to check but I don’t know if there was an issue or if I just didn’t run heat long enough. I really thought I had!

It sure gets the heart pumping.

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So there I was at Lydd Aerodrome, staring at my latest madcap idea. A tired looking 1970s A2A Piper Comanche that was bought during a drunken session while looking on Ebay.

Buyer regrets are legion, but a deal is a deal…

It had the tip tank delete and a few go faster mods fitted in the late 90s… A grubby looking specimen, but the logbooks were in order. Time for my maiden flight to Leeds.

Having quite a lot of flying hours on DCS military aircraft, turbine and piston, I was not anticipating problems, although FS2024 is my first foray into the genre for over 10 years and I barely know whats what.
I did read that the walkaround system was currently broken with the comanche, I elected to spawn hot and ready on the Lydd runway 21. A quick look at the ipad showed everything was peachy and the engine had 9 quarts of oil. What the condition of this oil was, I never knew.

Took off, set course north westish at 2500ft and there in front was London. Ooh goody, a sightseeing opportunity. I had her on autopilot heading and alt hold and thought to reset the gyro card to the compass as I do every 15mins or so.
So look at the compass, wait for it to steady and…
In the corner of my eye was a flashing red word on the engine monitor “OIL”. What the deuce. A look at the gauge showed zero oil pressure or temp. I can understand zero pressure and high temp, but not both zero. Is it instrument failure?
A look at the fuel gauges showed both still working, so it was not a popped breaker.

What to do for the best? Across London in the distance I could see a large airport, but that was out of the question.

Two options:

  1. Turn around and make a precautionary landing in a wheat field, damaging the aircraft in the process
  2. Turn around and try to make it back to Lydd or a nearby runway while the engine was still producing enough power for maintaining altitude.

Not knowing the sim, the comanche nor indeed a light GA aircraft swinging a three bladed prop, I chose option one.
Rational being if the engine stopped suddenly, it may tear the engine from its mountings, shed the prop or catch fire. None were very appealing, so I chopped the throttle and looked for a suitable wheatfield.

Got her down on the ground after much banging and crashing, sounds of tortured metal and assorted frightening occurences. When she came to a halt, still on her wheels and engine idling calmly to itself with no sign of knocking, I deduced it must be instrumentation.

So what did I do wrong?
Well I was in a well used, unknown aircraft and chose to undertake a long flight off the bat. Get homeitis is a killer.
I sat there picking my nose, blythly watching the pretty scenery pass by while approaching London. In real life, there was no way I would have gone anyway near London airspace.
I started across a major built up area, looking forward to a bit of sightseeing, while completely ignoring the safe gliding distance altitude rule. If I had been up at 8000ft, I would have easily made the distant airport.
These failures were tightening the noose.

What did I get right? I immediately turned away from the built up area and looked for a forced landing area.
I immediately reduced power and rpms to nurse the engine and lower the energy contained within the spinning propellor.

Grey areas. Should I have taken a chance that the failure was instrumention and tried to make it somewhere safe to land, or carry out an immediate forced landing? The engine continued running after the forced landing.
However, the consequences of a locking up engine could have being fatal.

In this instance, A2A in their design of the comanche were kind to me. In real life, I reckon I would have torn the nose strut out of the firewall, destroyed the prop and shock loaded the engine. But I would have walked away.
As for the failure, I deduce that the oil sensor must be a combined pressure transducer and temp sensor and it or its wiring had failed. Easy to figure when sat in a comfy armchair, beer in hand. Quite different when in a spot of bother…

What would the community have done different and why? What did I miss?
I damaged the aircraft and would be subject to a thorough CAA investigation. What would their findings be?

I carried out the same flight today and tracked across the thames estuary, and apart from some truly horrible low cloud, rain and scud running cloud bases at 1500ft with often less than one mile visibility across suffolk, Norfolk and South Lincolnshire, it was carried out without incident apart from a case of carb icing from flying through the cloud.
The Comanche is now in multiflights hanger at Leeds Bradford, getting a good seeing to.

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It’s hard to know without knowing the area. But if there were landing areas along my route back to the starting location and the engine sounded OK. I’d have turned and been ready to cut the engine. Besides the engine dying the biggest risk may be getting engine oil all over the windscreen making an emergency landing difficult. I saw footage of that for real once. But most don’t seem to do that.

If I had to fly over towns with not enough glide range to clear them then I’d land anywhere I could, as I think you did.

If the engine is sounding OK and the gauge says something non-sensical then yeah, there has to be a gauge issue. Though it isn’t unknown to have cascading failures. Maybe the engine mechanicals took the sensor out?!

If we fly in sim like in real life, and I usually do, then it can sway things to be more precautious!

I sometimes watch aviation incidents to see what I can learn and ponder what I might have done in the hope that if something happened, I’d have more of an idea, faster, than if I didn’t. That’s where I got the engine oil thing from.

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I suspect you are quite correct. And yes, my flights are always realistic, be it military flying in DCS or now on here, GA flying in real time conditions with a real objective to achieve.
Mortgages and kids put paid to my flying aspirations years ago, so I rely on VR PC flight simulation for my flying these days, have invested a lot of money in it, so I better make it as real as possible. All my flights have an element of “grind” about them just as in real life.
No quick gratification from taking off from an airbase, dropping bombs on something and back in the officers club bar 20 minutes later. I am going to be sat in that ejection seat for at least 3 hours…if I survive attacking the target.

From the comfort of my armchair, I will deduce what the CAA inspector would have had to say in his report about the actual forced landing, other stupid mistakes aside…

He would have pretty much ascertained that the engine was either failing and the crank bearings were showing signs of overheating, or it was instrumentation.

I still have no idea if it was instrumentation or an actual odd failure of the lube system, as I pulled the prop back to 1400 rpm and cut the throttle immediately after the 180 degree turn away from London.
So I have no idea if the engine was still capable of producing power or not, or if it would have started vibrating and knocking when power was applied.

Only the A2A devs know what failure modes they have programmed into the engine.

If they programmed a dual oil sensor failure as I suspect, as it was a pretty bizarre turn of events, then there we have it. I mentioned stating any bugs that could have been a link in the chain to disaster.
Because the walkaround system is not working, I did not check the dipstick for quantity and oil condition, I relied on the tablet to tell me the oil quantity. Maybe this had a bearing on the failure. Maybe the oil was black sludge and wrecked the sensors.

Armed with our suspicions, the CAA report would read that I in suspecting it could have been instrumentation not mechanical, I could have reduced power and RPM and continued a little while longer, while monitoring fuel flow, manifold pressure and rpm for stability, and of course listening out for the signs of a failing engine… Oil leaking from the cowling, acrid smells, smoke, increasing mechanical noise and vibration.

If these symptoms became present, then indeed it would be prudent to carry out a forced landing in a suitably long field.
If not it would have been more prudent to continue to a safe landing area.

I was indeed far too quick to put it on the ground, without working the problem for a sufficient length of time as you advise.

It would have gone on to state mitigating factors such as experience of catatrophic engine failures in military aircraft where indeed, my initial fears of a hard lock up had been experienced.

The report would have been critical of my actions, but as there was no negligence involved and no damage to private property or members of the public injured, I would have kept my licence.

However, I would have stayed well away from the flying club bar for a week or two.

I hope everyone learned something from this sad tale.
Main one being, do not buy an aircraft on ebay after sinking six or seven pints…

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Appropos this thread. I can now confirm that since the latest patch, the walkaround is now functional in VR.

So I am on the apron at Vagar, doing my walkaround inspection and getting soaked.
I am on leg five of my suicidal winter ferry flight across the Atlantic, using the northern route.
Leeds Bradford, Edingburgh, Wick, Vagar Faroe Islands.

Battery on, pitot heat on. Pitot tube cold… Switch battery and pitot heat on again. Pitot tube cold. Checked circuit breaker for pitot heater. Popped.

Reset the breaker and we have heat haze coming from it. Great.

Started her up, let her warm while I mess with the nav gear and took off. Circle around in heavy mist and set course for Iceland. Weather predicted to be four degrees celsius and light rain at Vagar, which is quite correct.

Weather for Keflavik was also predicted to be light rain and two degrees celsius. Good oh. Winds on route were reasonably favourable, with a strong breeze of some 25 knots blowing from the south west, which meant it was pretty neutral.

So on course in rain and mist, so I thought I may try to get on top of the clouds, I had offloaded 100lbs of un needed baggage which should help climb performance a lot, so up we went. The cloud had a surprising amount of convection going on inside, not something to really expect at this time of year, but we continued up. We broke out of the tops at 10,000ft into lovely sunshine. Great.

A look at the indicated airspeed and the gps groundspeed showed we also had a 55mph headwind. Boo. Nothing for it but to find kinder winds below, so down we went again. Levelled off at 2000ft and found I had picked up a 2mph tailwind.

The rain had cleared to occasional showers, and we droned on. Nothing but the ocean below to see. An hour later I was sat there musing, thinking that I may get my baseball cap and kindle, use the hat to prop the headset on top of my head and read my kindle to pass a bit of time, this being a long flight.

As I mused, I did my 15 minute check. Pulled out the carb heat and got a rough running engine. Great we are in conditions conducive to carb icing.

Obviously, I could not leave the cockpit for a second.

At hour two the showers had become larger, heavier and more widespread. The ratio of time, I could see the ocean below to it being invisible was about 10%.

Around this time, I was once again going around the cockpit doing my 15 minute cruise checks. Altitude good. Airspeed good. Direction good. Gyro compass synchronised to mag compass. Oil pressure good. Oil temp good. Fuel pressure good. Tip tanks selected. Quantity ok. Manifold pressure set at 20". RPMs set at 2000 and steady. Mixture set with EGT showing 1400F. Fuel flow steady at 10.1 GPH.

Oh electrical load. Err showing a slight discharge. Pitot heat off, discharge rate improved a little, but still discharging slightly. Pitot heat on, discharge increased.

â– â– â– â–  I have another four hours in poor weather to fly. I need electrical power to run the nav systems, electrically powered instruments- Directional Gyro and Turn Coordinator and the autopilot.

Pitot heat off. Hope it does not ice up.

Instrument lights and nav lights off. Nice to have but not strictly needed to stay in the air.

ADF. Off. Another nice thing to have, but not strictly needed.

Out with the manual. Emergency checklist. Loss of Electrical Generator.

  1. Confirm discharge indication. Done.

  2. Reduce electrical load as much as possible by prioritising what can be turned off without danger to the flight. Done.

  3. Check Generator Circuit Breaker. There it was, a popped breaker. Pushed it back in and we are charging at 20 amps, showing a seriously depleted battery.

That is why you do these checks every 15 to 20 minutes. If I left it another half an hour, the first indication I would have of the battery dying, is the screens on the nav systems switching off and the autopilot kicking off.

The pulse raising drama was over and we continued on…

At hour three, 1pm GMT, it is already twilight so far north. The OAT gauge dropped steadily from 4C to 2C and the sleet started. Ah â– â– â– â– , I am in serious trouble. Should I turn back? I am closer to Iceland than the Faroes at this point. I continued on for 15 minutes and noted that the sleet was not building up on the windscreen and leading edges of the airframe. I elect to continue.

Meanwhile, the barometric pressure continues to fall. It started at 1010mb at Vagar and now it is 995mb. Have reset the altimeter three times.

Hour four and about 50 miles out from the south east Icelandic coast. 2pm.

The sleet showers have turned into a constant barrage, but looking out at the wings, everything is good. It is not building. The mixed in rain is preventing it sticking. I cannot see the ocean below and have not seen it for a good half hour.

I reset the altimeter to the new barometric pressure setting I have received. It is now 985mb and I have to climb 200ft to regain an indicated 2000ft.

I am starting to feel seriously stressed. I am in zero visibility. I am in sleet, I have a rapidly deteriating and unforecast weather situation with rapidly falling barometric pressure. I am approaching the coast, is there a mountain on the coastline, right in my path with a summit of 2100ft?

Thousands of airmen have died in exactly these circumstances.

The Yorkshire Pennines and Derbyshire Peaks are littered with airplane wrecks caused by this, I used to go hunt for them.

The GPS shows I am crossing the coast and no sign of any land below. We continue. It would be unlucky to hit something at 2000ft near the coast.

I should have had a look at a topographical map of Iceland before I set out, then I would know the minimum safe altitude to fly at, but too late now.

I cannot see the ground below and letting down a little to attempt to find it is suicide. Its called flying into the glass mountain. You never see it coming…

Five minutes later, I see something ahead. I fly out of the storm into clear air. There is the ground below, so I use the opportunity to go down lower and hopefully remain in visual contact with the ground, before I fly through the next shower ahead.

I hit the next shower and now I am lower, am able to stay in contact with the ground. I have it made, just a hundred miles of scud running through the sleet showers and I am at Keflavik.

Back to clear air for ten minutes and I plunge back into a shower. This one seems different, it seems to have a slightly brown tint to it and it is darker inside.

Ahead in the murky depths, I think I catch a glimse of rising ground and slam both prop and throttle levers full forward into max climb power, pulling back on the stick to climb hard. It was rising ground and it continued rising to 4500ft. I ended up at low level over a plateau that was obviously a large glacier, complete with crevasses. A few huts were dotted around it here and there and the sleet shower had passed.

The next wall of sleet approached, and in I plunged. Immediately, I lost ground contact. Not good. I thought I saw a mountain peak go by to the left and once again, both levers forward and climb another 500ft. I was in a total whiteout. I was now in a snow blizzard, and it was starting to stick to the windscreen and wings. I was in serious trouble now. My bag of tricks was empty.

I needed to get to lower altitude fast, but I was stuck over high ground… I had one more forlorn hope tucked in the bottom of my empty bag.

I looked at the gps and noted a Fjord about sixty miles away to my left and turned towards it. If I can get over it, I can let down safely to sea level using GPS alone, provided there were no power cables strung across it. Or cross the coastline out to sea.

Windscreen defroster to full, I turned towards it, while the ice continued to build on the wings, front of the tip tanks and everywhere else exposed to it.

The autopilot was demanding more and more up trim as it ran out of control authority and the engine was almost at max power just keeping us level.

The airspeed was dropping from 140 mph, to 130mph, then 120 mph. Time to kick off the autopilot.

The pitch of the nose kept rising and the airspeed kept dropping and the throttle pushed to the max. It is called " being on the wrong side of the power/ drag curve" and once there, there is nothing you can do to maintain altitude. Biggles or Douglas Bader at this point are screwed. Human ingenuity is one thing, the immutable law of physics is quite another… There is nothing left to alter what is happening, unless something radically changes.

Still in the whiteout, I could see the edge of the fjord on gps about a mile away, a glance at the airspeed indicator showed 90 mph. No choice, she was about to fall out of the sky. I had to lower the nose a little to reduce drag and risk hitting something or stall out.

She picked up a bit of speed but was rapidly losing altitude, still nose high.

I saw the edge of the fjord in front of me and dumped the nose.

Down we went, like a falling brick. The whiteout cleared to a light snow shower and I could see water below. Pulled out above the water and airspeed back at 140 mph. Phew.

Not phew. The OAT gauge still read minus six celsius. It was no warmer down in the fjord than above. The ice was not going to melt, the drag was not going to decrease, the engine was not magically transformed into a rip snorting powerhouse, it was still the tired old nag it was before, and that airspeed needle will continue to show a steady decline.

All I had done was buy myself a view of the crash site and a couple of extra minutes to contemplate my impending doom. My bag of luck was empty, my bag of experience was also empty.

What the hell do I do?

Well, put her down in a controlled manner while I still could of course. Better to meet your maker with a set jaw and steely eye as you firmly put her down, than hold on to the end, screaming like a girl as you spin into the ground…

So that is just what I did. And walked away. I put her down, wheels up in deep snow, so she was cushioned. The engine and prop are toast, but I bet airframe damage is minimal.

Since I did not die and the aircraft remains in one piece, the trip is not over. She will be recovered, put on a trailer, taken to the Icelandic Air Services hanger, and if the owners wishes it (as i am absolutely sure he will ;-). , be repaired and better than before.

You can see the ice built up on the side window and ( bent) prop blade. Very scary. There endeth the traditional Xmas eve tale of horror.

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