Virpil VFX Grip w/mongoose TM-2 base, and the TM-03 Throttle unit, they also have new addon box with landing gear, but I just assign mine to a two way switch which works. Nice to have gear lever, but even more things taking up space. Switch built into TM-3 so no other stuff. Not sure could mount to monster tech chair I use either, and then more brackets/platforms, blah.
The T.16000 Flight Stick is excellent. Not plasticky at all.
I initially don’t fly with rudder pedals as well - it is possible, but with the current gust model it is almost near-impossible to do. You have to de-crab the plane after flying down the approach path in crosswind situation, re align the plane to the centre line at high speeds, you definitely need rudder pedal.
Even with airliners, you do need rudder pedal during take-off and landing phase, but that’s mostly it.
As for your budget / family situation:
If you think Honeycomb is a bit “splurging”, then you probably should consider Thrustmaster entry level stuff like the TCA Airbus or the Boeing 787 one, which can be combined with their plasticky rudder pedal that is “just a pedal” - it works, it has a hall sensor, and of course a bit finicky.
My T.16000M set works perfectly, until the twist function starts going haywire and require some cleaning every now and then. All in all, you get quite a complete package for what you paid for. But if you are the type that “it is better to buy used BMW M3 and live with all its messy ownership cost, than a brand new Toyota Camry” - then yeah, Turtle Beach Velocity One is your option - be mindful that it is also plasticky too. If you are already invested in Honeycomb, why not save up and consider the Charlie pedal too? Both TB Velocity One and Honeycomb Charlie pedals are “a bit too wide” for some people, but the sensors are fantastic, some review says it feels way better than Thrustmaster TFRP (but then again, it only costs $150).
All in all, does the job if you want to get buttery smooth centreline landing during stormy weather. But for helicopter flying, using it as torque pedal will be quite annoying and unwieldy at times as the tension feels very rough around the edges.
Well, follow-up. After some deliberating and taking into account I already have a Honeycomb Yoke + Logitech throttle, I decided to cancel the Alpha Throttle. It would be a great combo , but wouldn’t add anything I already have beside quality and more options for throttle. I’m not advanced enough to “need” the Bravo tbh.
So (again) looking into a stick with rudder control too. Considering either a Virpil or VKB Evo. The VKB seems very interesting to me, since it has a (small) throttle lever on the base but also some dials which can be used for trim. Not ‘authentic’ but I still have the yoke/throttle when I want to fly props.
Is VKB considered decent? Or should I spring for Virpil right away (no idea which base/grip I would need for FS2020 btw).
VKB Gunfighter line stands up well in comparison to Virpil. If anything in past it was bit ahead, but that might have changed with Virpil’s CM3 base that borrowed the clutch damper feature from the Gunfighter, and also features easier adjustment. Here’s a recent comparison from r/HOTAS: Alpha Prime + CM3 base vs. Modern Combat Grip Ultimate + Gunfighter III : hotas (reddit.com)
VKB Gladiator line is a budget oriented line that really lacks direct competitor from Virpil. Gunfighter, WarBRD and CM series of bases are basically metal sans electronics. At the core they consist of bearings travelling along spring loaded cams. Gladiator has plastic gimbal with springs on pincer arms, it’s wildly regarded as better than anything from e.g. Thrustmaster but it’s not as fancy as those premium metal gimbals. The grips on it are tad more in the direction of function than fancy (though personally I wouldn’t exchange the compact, lightweight and ergonomic SCG grip which I use on my Gunfighter to anything else currently on the VKB or Virpil lineup). However it’s good for the price. It can also be expanded with those THQ and SEM modules VKB sells (they can be attached and wired to the sides of the Gladiator base).
So basically
Gladiator base: cost effective plastic base. Can be expanded with modules.
Gunfighter: fancy metal base, works best with extension (but is shipped with tabletop base plate and will work fine without, I just wouldn’t consider it that much of an upgrade over the Gladiator without an extension).
CM2: Virpil’s older competitor to Gunfighter base, but lacks the clutch damper. If you don’t care for one (e.g. you plan on flying helicopters rarely or never), it seems they are still being sold at reduced price. No tabletop base plate, so needs to be mounted.
CM3: Virpil’s newer competitor to Gunfighter, with quick adjustment features. Needs mount as above.
WarBRD: Virpils base meant for tabletop use or general use without an extension. If you want to go more premium than Gladiator and aren’t planning on extension and don’t care for the damper, I’d chiefly consider this one.
(In case you are wondering, flight stick with 20cm extension is kind of awesome for flight sims, but it also needs a mount and some of the cheaper mounts like J-PEIN can’t structurally handle an extended flight stick)
For grips consider how many functions you want. For MSFS tons of hats aren’t necessary, especially if the stick is being supplemented with button boxes, but they don’t detract anything either and are very useful in other games (especially space games and modern day milsims). Consider if you want dedicated brake lever since you won’t use pedals. Consider if you want a mini joystick (or two as some of these sticks have) for view panning if you don’t use head tracking (though getting head tracking is a good idea too). Consider your setup ergonomics. Do you plant to fly with left hand (together with GA style throttle) or right hand? Do you plan for mounted extended stick, a mounted non-extended stick or a tabletop stick? Note for example that not all those grips and be rotated for better ergonomics in center mount (the VKB SCG can’t, though the VKB 20cm extension can). Do you really want a grip that’s 25cm tall (and well over 30cm with the base)?
I don’t want to mount anything, just use on my desk. Considered the virpil + base, but that puts me over 400 euro which is a sum I don’t want to invest (yet) in a stick. So decided to go ahead and ordered the VKB NXT EVO Gladiator (space combat) premium. I understand it’s not as advanced as a Virpil but I also suppose the VBK is quite a bit more premium than the Thrustmaster/Logitech sticks. And the base has a small throttle, dials which can be used for trim, it has a twist-action and enough buttons to suit my needs.
I’m also very much considering to replace my Logitech throttle to a Thrustmaster TWCS to use in combination with my Honeycomb yoke. That throttle, while also pretty plasticky, has a flap that can be used to control the rudders and will also work fine as a throttle/extra buttons for flaps etc. Doing so, would give me a somewhat decent yoke/throttle combo (with rudder control) and I’ll also have a nice stick for jets and when I don’t want to use up much space on the desk. Total cost of this is the same as I would’ve paid for the Honeycomb Throttle, which is undoubtedly better quality but somehow overkill for my experience level.
Btw, also have pre-ordered the VelocityOne Flight Stick for PC/Xbox just out of curiosity. Would make a nice fit for my Xbox Series X. And can always send back when I’m not happy with it.
If playing with a stick is something I really like, then I might consider upgrading to a more high-end stick like the ones you suggested.
A small follow-up, been experimenting a bit with settings and now have my Honeycomb Yoke setup so that when I press the little white button behind the left-hand of the yoke, and then turn the yoke, the rudders are turned. Works great so far for taxiing and take-off. Glad I found a working solution to control the rudders with the yoke without compromising other controls.
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Could you elaborate on how you did this? Do you mean that pressing the switch changes the axis-binding between aileron and rudder or that it toggles the autorudder assist-option?
You need to keep the white button pressed in and then use the yoke as a rudder. Doesn’t exactly work perfectly since you loose yoke control at that moment. Bought myself cheap TM rudders now.
Thanks and how did you configure the buttons to achieve this?
@LapinoBEL How about voice control? Two products: Voice Attack or Aviator Voice Packs might solve your problem:
Voice Attack:
Aviator Voice Packs
Aviator Voice Packs command manual is here.
I’ve not checked to see if they specifically control the rudder, but if not, you may be able to change one or two buttons on your yoke or throttle units to voice control, thus freeing up the buttons for rudder control.
Hope this helps,
Jon
I have used a trustmaster Hotas. You can bind the rudder axis to the paddles und control them with two fingers easily. Sure it’s not a real substitution for rudder paddles because the brake functionally is limited but it’s working quite well and adding a second key to them selective braking is possible.
I have been using the TM rudder pedals for a few weeks now, got them cheap at Amazon. They work, but I’m not exactly impressed with the quality so might get something better in the future.