What's the deal with controller support?

That’s bit better, but still if you need to maneuver you need to keep it in the air. Also if I understand you correctly - you tilt-rotate one controller to steer yoke? Then it is way different type of movement than on real yoke - where you move your hand down primarily, and because yoke have shaft it translates into tilt movement.

For me that is just strange approach - suitable maybe someone who doesn’t have proper control device (joystick/yoke), otherwise as far as I can understand hand tracking, or even using VR controllers for buttons and switches (reason not to like them I posted in previous post), I cannot see how virtual VR yoke would be better than physical device. :slight_smile:

Yes, I understand that the elevator control is not “true to life” in terms of the yoke motion on its shaft - you’re right, I would tilt the controller forward and backwards for this action.
(XP11 does give you the option for “true to life” yoke control but this does need you to hold your hand in the air!)

The reason behind wanting this though, is that I can move away from my desk and sit with just pedals. I then have space to reach around the virtual cockpit without bumping into things in my office.

Like I said, some people prefer hardware, and that is their choice, but I prefer to use only VR controllers (and pedals!) so I just would like the option to be there for me (and many others who like this way of doing things)

I understand what do you mean and accept that reasoning, even tough it is not for me :slight_smile:
But as far as I know - vr controllers wont work as yoke, therefore just replacing mouse, and that will be almost for nobody - won’t give you chance to move from desk, won’t give people without yoke/joy a way to play, and will be cumbersome to use with yoke. And if that’s goal of ASOBO, then it is waste of time and resources, of course from my point of view, because as I said - people requested that people will get. :wink:

Watch my video on the main VR contoller topic (original post) to see how I operated that in X-Plane 11. I modded the controller by a 3D-printed “holder” on the body, with a sort-off thin bungie cord, so the right controller is strapped to my palm all the time. Left hand is on the yoke, right hand operates throttles and switches etc. After a while I forget that I hold the controller at all, I don’t have to HOLD it, it’s just there.

There is similar commercial grip available. The idea is that you don’t have to hold it, you only squeeze it when you need to press a button. That way you don’t feel like you’re holding an object all the time. An you can even help with the yoke with your right hand, or operate a throttle controller, although it’s a but clumsy, it works.

This just gave me an idea: if I could just mod the controller to be strapped to the outside of my palm, not inside, with an extra button strapped to my finger, my hand would be free for any hardware I need without the clumsiness. If only SteamVR OpenXR would work well in MSFS with Reverb G2, DIY LucidVR haptic glove would be an ideal solution, but it won’t work with WMR OpenXR.

Unfortunately, I think you’re right here. The first step definitely suggests it will just replace mouse :frowning:
I hope they have bigger plans!

I have built a motion platform and some hardware with dual encoders, buttons and switches, plus a throttle that I’d like to use. So despite my strap described above I would probably keep a controller on my lap when it’s supported, and grab it to operate virtual switches, buttons etc. I literally swear half of the time when I have to do it with the mouse, it’s so immersion-breaking and plain inconvenient - it hurts. Grabbing a controller and operating whatever is not in your hardware is much better just ergonomically.

As for the virtual yoke - nope, that’s very unrealistic and inconvenient. Virtual throttle kinda worked in X-Plane, but I had to turn my hand every time I adjusted it, to verify the grab. Hardware throttle is much more precise and intuitive. With joystick or a yoke - lack of resistance and inability to hold it just kills it. You can control the plane, but it’s so much worse than a real yoke - sort of similar to mouse instead of VR controllers for operating switches and buttons :slight_smile: Hardware yoke, pedals are a must, and possibly a hardware throttle. And despite X-Plane encoded rotation in VR with feedback vibration clicks is amazingly cool, real dual encoders are much more precise and natural, so I think my VR Control Box would still be more convenient than controllers, for what it does.

I saw it, still - if I want to use real throttle quadrant - no way to do it. Mounting outside palm will be cumbersome and it will shift ‘origin’ of controller vs hand, so it won’t be intuitive. And still you need buttons… that’s way too much hassle imho. But everyone should do whatever they like :slight_smile: Just hope for most focus of developers on thing that are important to everyone - like performance in VR, overexposure, graphics quality and so on.

Solution for that is to get more buttons and knobs, with some clever setups of Spad.next it is possible to control basically everything even in DC-6 :wink:

I grabbed myself Behringer X-touch mini and mounted on top of Bravo - got 8 knobs with push buttons, 16 push buttons, slider … and 2 profiles which I can switch on flight so it basically doubles inputs of X-touch mini :sunglasses:

I get you, and I reach for the same, but I believe the best solution is both: controllers + throttles/button boxes. The problem with button boxes and hardware is that there’s only so much you can intuitively find and use without looking, while wearing VR HMD.

In my control box, similar to your solution, I concentrated 6 DYI dual encoders with click (operating just like the ones on Garmin units!), 8 buttons and 3-pos switch (that works as bank switch, potentially tripling the controls, but I only use 2 banks, mostly 1).

I’m also building a custom yoke/joystick on hall sensors, so will have to throw away Logitech throttle quadrant, so I’ll also build a custom throttle quadrant with 6 axis, Boeing style levers (with A/T disengage and GA buttons and 2 analog reverse lever axis) and a few switches. And I will also build an additional box with gear lever + several light and battery switches too. I’m planning to use all that, but even if it’s not too much - that’s about the limit of what I could possibly remember and reach while in VR. I highly doubt it that you can use 16 of your X-touch buttons in VR, you won’t be able to figure out which is which, just by touch. Even figuring out each of the 8 encoders in a row you are touching would be a challenge. BTW in my box 6 dual encoders have 4 distinctively different shapes, modeled after G1000, to help and identify which one you are touching.

What about G1000/G3000 buttons, 12 each? 6 menu buttons for GNS530/G1000 are covered by my box, but not a rows of under the screen buttons. What about the GNS750 and TMB versions that are fully touch screen controlled? I could only map 3 buttons, zoom and almost useless encoders in TMS and the like, on my box. What about dozens of other buttons and switches larger airplanes have? Even if all that could be mapped - and it can’t be, I checked - no way you could orient blindly in all that in VR.

Mouse is a nightmare with those things, and controllers will be sweet. Grabbing a controller from my lap is not more cumbersome than reaching for the mouse, probably much less so. Then it’s just reach and point right on what you’re seeing.

My idea about outside mounting is just an idea, I haven’t tested it. But even with the controller strapped to the inside of your palm allows you to operate throttle or help with the yoke - just not very neatly - the controller gets in the way a bit, but yo can still grab and move things, because you’re not holding the controller, it’s just, well, there. Still beats the mouse by a lot. Just see the votes to my post. It’s #1 at the VR snapshot for a reason.

So I’m planning to use the boxes while possible, and grab the controllers for more complicated things, like FMC programming, cold start, engine starts, manipulating charts, writing down ATC instructions, touch screen usage etc. While flying, take-off and landing, most operations would be doable with hardware.

Believe me - it is possible, you just need ‘origin points’ and memory muscle :slight_smile: at first it is not easy, but quickly works very good - exactly as using keyboard without watching it when you type. I added one origin point in middle and then things with buttons go very easy.

You see green knobs? these are most used ones - outer-inner left, outer-inner right for gns430/530, these I 3d printed, and they are different diameter and height - extremely easy to differ. rest four I probably will also 3d print with different shapes (probably based on some AP/nav knobs, idk yet) but so far I don’t have much trouble with them

That is something I cannot argue, but didn’t think about, because all that glass cockpits are soooo boring for me :wink: I love steam-gauges planes and spend most time in: DC-6, Piper Arrow, P-38L.
Of course it is not possible to map A320, and for modern airliners controllers/mouse is needed (however typing in anything on FMC in A320 looks the same way bad with vr controller and mouse - there would need keyboard/FMC simulator unit).

Well depends - I can map all switches of DC-6, it is possible, takes time, but it can be done. If it is possible to remember them? yeah, most for sure (and yes I can remember them). But for me in case of this plane, quite a few buttons are used once - going from “cold and dark” to “ready to fly”, and then on shutdown. There I simply use mouse, since it is impossible to map f###### button on checklist window to mark entry as checked and going with interactive checklist is so much fun.

I know, as I said - even tough I don’t need it, I understand that people want that. I might not agree that it will be better than buttons and knobs / will be as some people imagine or might not agree that it should be priority now, but I’m not gonna deny that people want that. I’m not angry - it is good that developers (at least to some degree) listen to community :slight_smile: I would prefer devs to focus purely on performance and image quality (and few other bugs related do VR), since that is touching everyone.

But I also know that it might be different teams working on that, or some changes require more internal testing or iterations - I know software development process in complex systems, I do that every day in work :wink:

So if I sound bit salty, then sorry, I just wanted to present other point of view, since this topic is focused on discussion and reasoning around VR controllers. :slight_smile:

One think round that would be game changer - would be hand tracking, but we are not there yet, current iteration of that interfaces is neither popular, nor precise (or often loose tracking). So maybe next gen HMDs, maybe one generation more from next gen we will get something nice in that matter. Maybe some good, popular haptic gloves? Who knows, but it seems that it should go that way at some point :wink:

I’ll try motion controllers in msfs but the idea doesnt really excite me, i like my hotas.

Well some controllers have thumb joysticks, which are sensitive enough to do the same work as a normal joystick. I know my Oculus ones can do a myriad of interface options with finger position sensing, buttons, and thumbsticks, but its up to the developers to work with what is available I guess. With the Airlink I could ‘in theory’ from another room to the PC, run MSFS from the headset and fly it without loosing any functionality from if I was sitting with my keyboard, mouse and joystick. This means I could get more flying time as my family does occasionally like me to emerge from my sim room :smiley:

As good as normal joystick? Maybe. As good as good/high quality joystick or good yoke? Sorry but no. I tried both Quests (own one) and also HP G2 controllers - they are not as good nor precise as my yoke.

If you’re on the left / captain side you’re supposed to fly with your left hand. Same in most GA aircraft.

For me, nothing is more immersive than using yoke, pedals throttle etc, as in real life.
Motherboard: Asus Rog Hero x11 wifi Z490
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Next level V3 Motion platform on GT Ultimate rig.
2 Buttkickers on race rig with 300watt earthquake amp.
Sim Racing studio wind and tactile generators.
Saitek Quadrant.
Saitek Multi panel.
Honeycomb Alpha Yoke.
Honeycomb Bravo Throttle controller.
Saitek fuel controller and deicer levers.
Thrustmaster TPR Rudder.
VR. HP Reverb G2.
400mbit Virgin fibreoptic net.
Now, this is immersion.

I agree (as you might see) with proper yoke, throttle and pedals and so on, but man do you really need to try to “flex” with your setup? (especially that except controllers - the rest is nothing related to topic) :wink:

As I’ve said many times on this topic, I don’t have any issue with people who want to use their hardware, I get it. I have a stick and throttle myself which I use for other sims.

All I’m expressing here is my wish that everything is available, including using touch controllers to operate everything in the cockpit.

A few posts above, Roman describes how you might need a million different button box layouts and peripherals to deal with flying many different aircraft. I don’t have the time and budget to buy tons of hardware, and I don’t see the need, when the sim creates a virtual version of a myriad of different cockpits!

I’m certainly not arguing that one way is better than another, just that different folks want different things! Button boxes, sticks, yokes, etc. are already supported by the sim, it would be good for some of us if they include complete touch controller support.


All of it contributes to the immersion.

Sure, but we discuss “VR controllers vs yoke etc.” I can assure you that a lot people asking for VR controllers support have similar setup as yours. :slight_smile: (so does a lot people not asking for VR controllers support). So there is no need to write it, we abstract from PC specs etc. focusing on controlling :slight_smile: There is no need to brag :wink:

The only logical conclusion from this topic, as from my original topic that got the issue to the top of the VR snapshot, is that there is a very high demand for VR controller support, and that different people want different things. So the more options we have - the better. Some will still use mouse (ugh!), others will use controllers for all the interaction (yay!) while using hardware for yoke/pedals/throttle, and yet others will use controllers for everything.

BTW for the lucky ones that can run MSFS with SteamVR instead of WMR, there are cheap DIY haptic gloves (google LusicVR gloves) that work already in everything that runs on Steam. A glove like that would be perfect. There’s your hand tracking, haptic feedback and the hand is free for using the hardware.

So, nobody has any information about Asobo‘s (or any 3rd party plug-in supplier’s) plans to implement proper hand tracking ? And no news on the VR controller support implementation status ?