Worth replacing a 13900K with a 9800X3D or a 9950X3D when used with a 5090?

User Support Hub Virtual Reality (VR)
, ,
1

I do all my flying in MSFS2020 in VR using a MeganeX Superlight 8K VR headset. Primarily flying the iFly 737 MAX8 online on Vatsim to/from payware airports. Many of them rather complex.

My current rig consists of a 13900K with a 5090 and 64 GB RAM. The performance is OK but I don’t have that perfect smoothness I see when flying a less complex aircraft to smaller airports. I suppose that will be hard to achieve with the hardware we have available to us today but if I could at least see a noticeable improvement by rebuilding my rig, I would be willing to give it a try.

On that note, one thought that crossed my mind and especially after seeing how the bottleneck mostly seems to be the main thread is if it could be worth giving a fast AMD CPU a second try. Earlier this year when I still had a 4090 and a Varjo Aero, I did that test but ended up going back to my current system. This after not seeing much of an improvement if any in VR. In 2D mode, I did see an improvement.

What I’m thinking now when I have a 5090 instead of the 4090 I had last time I tried. And in combination with seeing how MSFS2020 is bottle-necked by the main thread, I’m thinking replacing my CPU with a fast AMD maybe is exactly what I need to get the most out of my 5090/my system. Potentially seeing a better improvement than last time, this time with a more powerful GPU. Sadly, I don’t recall when I tried last time where the bottleneck was - the CPU or the GPU.

Anyone in here have any experience with a quick AMD CPU together with a 5090? With the MeganeX Superlight 8K or a similar headset?

As for fast AMD CPUs, last time I got the 9800X3D but now we have the 9950X3D. More expensive but if that CPU would help getting the most out of my 5090 and the best possible smoothness, I would be happy to pay that extra money. I see how the 9950X3D comes with 16 cores. Where the 9800X3D comes with 8 cores.

Not sure how much of a difference that makes in MSFS (2020 and 2024). What I do remember though is how I found the 9800X3D to perform considerably worse than my current 13900K for other things than MSFS. Such as multitasking, unzipping files etc. Which I assume was because the lower number of cores.

For that reason alone (since I do like to have a quick system not only when running MSFS), I would be willing to get the 9950X3D over the 9800X3D even when more expensive. As long as it doesn’t perform worse than the 9800X3D in MSFS for whatever reason.

Any input or thoughts on this highly appreciated!

2

I can’t speak from experience, but I think the i9-13900K is a very capable processor, in part because it’s pretty easy to overclock.
Might you see an improvement with the extra L3 cache on an AMD chip? Sure.
Would it be worth the coin? That’s up to you.

I question whether the X3D cache can overcome the limitation of what seems to be poorly optimized code. It’s better in FS24 than it was in FS20, to be sure. But in my opinion, the reason X3D cache improves gameplay is that it reduces the need for effective core thread management.

The other thing is that, as a rule, Intel memory controllers can access faster RAM than AMD. There are people who run DDR5-8000 with an AMD CPU, but it’s easier on an Intel chipset. And Intel runs 4 DIMMS better than AMD.

These are just my thoughts. I’m not a computer expert, and I could be way off base. But to me, it wouldn’t be worth it to change from your current CPU. Maybe in a year or so, when AMD releases the 10xxx-series.

1 Like
3

I moved from i9-13900K to 9800x3D earlier this year but with 4090. I didn’t notice any improvements to be honest. I kept my old DDR5 5200 RAM but I doubt upgrading it for faster memory would make a big difference.

2 Likes
4

It’s hard to trust any comparative benchmarks between these two because we don’t know the specifics of the tester’s ‘tweaks’.

But this video shows that (in their system) the 9950X3D holds a slight advantage. Emphasis on ‘slight.’ If you are running a lot of apps simultaneous with the sim, the 9950X3D has a bigger advantage, particularly when Process Lasso is used to take advantage of its dual-CCD design. But if the sim is the main app, in my opinion the 9950X3D isn’t worth the extra coin.

They do a quick test in FS24 at the start of the video. The test was done @ 1080p, which keeps it focused on CPU rather than GPU performance.

  • 9800X3D Avg. FPS = 104, 1% Low = 83 FPS
  • 9950X3D Avg. FPS = 106, 1% Low = 85 FPS
1 Like
5

Thanks for your advice guys.

Of course there’s a lot of money for probably little improvement. On the other hand, when I already spent money getting a MeganeX Superlight 8K and a 5090, replacing the CPU, motherboard and memory would be a small cost in comparison. If that would allow me to have a smoother experience and enjoy the other hardware more, to me it would be worth it.

As I mentioned in my first post, what I’m mostly interested in is how things would be different now when I have the 5090 instead of a 4090. Where it’s very clear the main thread is what is limiting me at the moment.

@Marklar666 Exactly what I did and just like you, I didn’t see much of a difference. That was in VR I should say. In 2D, the 9800X3D was noticeable faster as I recall it. Have you checked what is the limiting factor for you now with the 9800X3D and the 4090 - the main thread or the rendering thread? Also, what headset are you using?

6

Like I said in my first post, I think you would be better served waiting for AMD’s next gen CPU’s.
But it’s your money, and you obviously can afford to buy whatever you want. If you were upgrading from an i5-8600K I’d say absolutely go for it. But the incremental improvement from an i9-13900K to a current AMD CPU?

Have you posted a review of the Meganex yet? I’m getting closer to upgrading my Reverb G2, and when I do it will be one of the high-end consumer headsets.

7

Well, I wish I could afford to buy whatever I want :joy: but as said, when I already spent the money on the MGX and the 5090, I can spend this extra money as well if it will give me that extra smoothness I’m looking for. I’d say right now, I have like 85-90% of the smoothness I would like. So if replacing my CPU would bring me up to 95-100%, I would consider it worth the money. Also, I will be able to sell my current CPU, motherboard and RAM. Giving me some money back.

Of course waiting for next gen is the constant question in this business…what’s around the corner will always be better and faster but at the same time, I want to enjoy what I have today…not tomorrow :joy:

Let’s see what I decide to do.

2 Likes
8

Today, I did my first flight after replacing my 13900K with the 9950X3D with a new motherboard and 64 GB DDR5 6000MHZ CL32 RAM and must say I’m pleasantly surprised!

Best way to describe it is how I went from like 85-90 % smoothness to like 95+ % in the iFly 737 MAX8. Which was exactly what I was hoping for.

Wasn’t expecting it though after my last visit in AMD land when I certainly didn’t see this improvement.

Further testing required but felt great being surprised in this positive way after the money and effort which went into this. I think this is a keeper :+1:

5 Likes
9

I am glad it worked out as expected.
Do you know this video?
VR bible
It might help to even find more smoothness.

10

Thanks, will check it out.

To add to my previous post, I’m even more impressed by the new CPU after using Process Lasso to distribute the core load in the most beneficial way.

1 Like
11

I read that some folks think Process Lasso is just ‘Snake Oil’, and in some cases, like AMD single-CCD CPU’s and also Intel CPU’s, I agree.

But for simmers like you and me who have dual-CCD AMD CPU’s like your 9950X3D and my 7950X3D, using properly configured Process Lasso is almost a “must have.”

I can say this because I’ve done the testing, and there’s simply no denying the facts.

2 Likes
12

@SunlitAlpaca141

It’s good to see you’re thinking about it.

1 Like
13

Couldn’t agree more and I was truly impressed by the result! So much that I decided to buy the payware version just to show my gratitude towards the developer.

I also did some testing and in 2D mode, I went from 55 → around 90 FPS just by using Process Lasso. In VR, the FPS increased from around 45 → around 70 FPS. Which is pretty insane when in the iFly 737 MAX8 at a payware airport and with the 8K (2x4) resolution in the MeganeX.

So certainly no snake oil when used with a 9950X3D but very real and amazing I would say.

Never had a more beautiful and smooth flying experience in VR before!!

1 Like
14

Same here. I tested the free version for quite some time with my 7950X3D. Once I got it configured properly I bought the paid version. I’m happy you got your (KILLER) system humming!

1 Like
15

I did a test some years ago with Lasso and didn´t convince me, it was an intel CPU, and I am thinking reading all you to test againg with the AMD now with boths CCD, I found this

“I would not bother with a lot of the features, you simply want to assign MSFS to 3d vcache cores 0-7 and the rest of your programs to 8-15 if you have a 16 core AMD chip. Don’t touch the windows background tasks, just the programs you are running should be assigned. It’s possible to move the windows background tasks as well but I don’t mess with those. You can also easily toggle lasso on or off once it’s set up too see how it impacts your setup, for some it helps out with MSFS frame timing/fps and for others it doesn’t, it’s very dependent on your setup/applications running.etc”
Process Lasso For MSFS24 - #18 by tempestornado23

Is it the best advise with Process Lasso still? haha, I am now very process lazy.

1 Like
16

can you share your process lasso settings that make a massive impact. is it simply assigning the sim to the 3d cores (1-7) and everything else to 8-15?

17

Not quite that simple. I basically followed this video by Savitarax.
I also enabled Bitsum Core Parking, disabling core parking completely, with the proviso that Windows Game Mode = OFF.

Note that I mistakenly said cores 0-7 and 8-15 (it’s really 0-15 and 16-31 with hyperthreading enabled.)

Also, I did all my testing with CapFrameX, running the sim @ 1080p with CPU-bottleneck settings.
That minimizes GPU bottlenecking. At 4K Ultra, I see little improvement (but still some) because the GPU is the bottleneck. But at least I know (believe) the CPU is running as efficiently as possible.

18

I’ve seen plenty of reports that Lasso doesn’t really halp Intel CPU’s, and in fact can be detrimental. I have hard data (that I’ve posted in the forum) that clearly shows a significant performance boost with my AMD 7950X3D.

1 Like
19

As far as I’m concerned (yes I\ve tried it in the past) it’s mainly Snake Oil. It seems to end up causing more problems, esp. if you don’t fully understand what it’s actually doing with all your apps. Just another unnecessary 3rd party app (like dlss swapper) imho. If you think it helps, that’s great I guess.

Many of these threads end up sooo off topic, lol! It’s pretty obvious that if you upgrade your i913900k/rtx4090 to a rtx5090 then you need to look at your cpu/ram/psu/mb capabilities.

Personally I don’t see the point in upgrading my +2.5yo PC (i913900k/rtx4090/790mb/64Gb 6400 ram/1000w Gold psu), or my +2.5yo QPro. All continues to work great with msfs2020/2024. I intend to wait a couple more years for nvidia rtx6000 series, together with better/faster cpu’s and ram.

In general, I don’t upgrade my PC’s until there is at least a 50% performance improvement. If you think 25-30% improvement is worthwhile for $'s spent, then that’s up to you I guess. Cheers.

1 Like
20

In general, I agree with you. Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading is nothing but wasting money as I see it. Reason I started this thread and ended up doing the upgrade was because I wanted to see if it would actually make any difference worth the money it would cost.

Now I know it did and I’m happy I gave it another go. This time with the 9950X3D. Since I didn’t see much of an improvement earlier this year when I tried doing the same thing with the 7800X3D as I think I already mentioned.

Main reason for all new hardware over here lately is I got the new MeganeX headset. Which is nothing short of amazing BTW once you have it all dialed in! Based on the very high resolution in this headset compared to my former Varjo Aero, I quickly understood in order to get as much as possible out of this new headset while at the same time, trying to keep the performance I’m used to with the Aero, I had to see what upgrades I could do to achieve this.

Now after first replacing my 4090 with a 5090 and most recently, the 13900K with the 9950X3D, I have achieved what I was hoping for - an amazing visual experience and still with great performance. Of course if you already have a headset you’re pleased with which performs well with your current rig, there’s no reason upgrading. I fully get that. That is the same situation I was in for a long time when using my Varjo Aero.

As for Process Lasso, I’m still very new using that program but as mentioned, seeing the FPS increase made the improvement very real to me. After setting it up based on the video linked below. What I did notice on my last couple of flights though was how I for whatever reason got lots of stuttering when I was getting close to the ground when on short final. Really odd and I don’t know what’s suddenly happened causing this. One thing which did cross my mind when trying to remember what changes I did was of course Process Lasso. Where I was thinking if it maybe could be that PL started to “learn” my system and for whatever reason decided to do some other changes to my system in the background I wasn’t aware of. Thinking it did a good thing where in fact it caused this stuttering issue in MSFS.

Hard to know when you’re not a rocket scientist but just to rule out PL, I have now restored my system to a state prior to having installed Process Lasso. To make 100% no traces of it would be left somewhere and to see if the stuttering will be gone when not using it.

One thing is for certain, this is a hobby which keeps you busy :joy:

1 Like