A320 Defult Vs Mod (Fly by wire) Aerodynamic/ flight model

Hi guys, I came here again to talk a little bit about the observations that I made about the Neo flight model 320.

Yesterday episode 10 of the Discovery series was launched, where Asobo showed us all the advances they are making in relation to the physics and aerodynamics of the flight simulator, and showed us things that will be implemented in the future. they are working hard with a team of pilots, engineers and mechanics from different aviation categories.

However, when watching the video again today for more details, I realized that many of the improvements mentioned in the video have already been applied, including in relation to the A320neo (which is the aircraft that flies the most) but the funny thing is that for me, the a320 neo behaves in almost the same way as when it was launched (skittish surfaces, seesaw behavior on the flar, excessive low-speed planging, etc.)

with that I was curious to exclude the defult plane and fly by wire mode, and do a clean installation of the plane (via the content manager) by placing only the Airbus defult in the simulator, without fy by wire mode, and surprisingly surprise it was very curious and relevant.

Watch this first video that shows the behavior of the standard aircraft and observe how it behaves after touching the ground, opening spoolers and applying the brakes.

now watch the second video where the 320 is with the mod and note that this happens when i do the same as i did the same test on the standard model.

NOTE: Both tests were done with the same weight and balance, same approach speed and landing configuration. when I arrived on the runway and the spoilers got up and the brakes went into action, I just pulled the entire shaft of the stick to observe which plane would respect the physics of a dense mass body slowing down.

The difference between the two is clearly noticeable. The standard model (without the mod) can be much more real than the fly by wire mod. note how difficult it is for the defult model to gain support again after the deceleration caused by the friction of the contact surfaces (flaps, spoilers, autobrakes).

1- Default aircraft (Without mod fly by wire)

Now take a look at the 321MOD again, as it seems to ignore the deceleration caused by the braking surfaces and manages to have enough energy to climb very high as if the plane were a sheet of paper and not a dense body slowing down.

2- Standard Aircraft (with fly by wire mod)

I have no idea why this occurs, we know that the fly by wire mod has brought us significant improvements in the aircraft systems, however something is happening, as the updates made by asobo in the flight model are not being inserted when the fly by mod wire is present.

I believe that this happens because apparently Everything in the Community folder overlaps the original files of the simulator, and I believe that the file regarding the flight model that the Mod people use is outdated and overlaps the improvements that the asobo brings in its updates related to physics by airplane.

I still don’t know if it is possible to delete all the information about the flight model that comes inside the fly by wire mod without affecting the modeling I did in the system, I will try and if I get results I will tell you how you did it.

Note: if someone who is reading this post and is from the fly by wire team, I would like to make it clear here that this post does not intend to reduce the work and effort that you have been doing for the community, thanks to you we have a more functional a320 for free , I want to emphasize that I am grateful for everything you have done and that this post is just an observation made by me (simulator user and passionate about aviation) based on my experiences with the simulator and observations.

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My bigger question here is… Why are you pitching up after touching down? And where’s your reversers?

It looks to me that this is a landing technique issue than the mod itself.

This is my landing with the A32NX mod with Custom FBW version that I did a few days ago. Notice that the aircraft instantly decels upon touchdown and the airspeed just started decreasing. And I slows down even more when I deploy the reversers and the nose touches down, not up like the one in your video.

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I agree with @Neo4316. What is it you are trying to do? If that’s your definition of what makes a good flight model, then all power to you. Just ignore the oto high stall speeds, too much drag, way too much drag for the speedbrakes, inaccurate fuel quantities (that are in the flight model), lack of max crosswind capability,…

I can tell you what contributes to that occurring, but okay, just go back to default so you won’t have that issue anymore.

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For some time I have noticed some strange things in the behavior of the mod, especially on landing, it tends and oscillates excessively even with the engines stopped and opens spoilers, not to mention that it does not stop when it reaches the red bar (which indicates the stol speed) , something that if you observe in the asobo model, after touching the ground it is very difficult for the aircraft to climb again, while the fly by wire mod has energy to climb 70 feet above the runway.

As I said, I did this because through episode 10 of the Discovery series I realized that many of the changes that my asobo made in the flight model and that they explain in the video were already present, but I didn’t feel them, so I decided to uninstall the fly by wire mod and test -o and the result was as follows, the plane does not float excessively in the asobo model, the spoilers really seem to work, when the plane arrives at high speed it cannot create lift again.

I invite you to try the standard version (without the mod), and feel the difference, it may be easier for you to understand what I’m trying to say

The “recent improvements” section of the video details the issues they’ve fixed and improvements that they’ve made. That’s true. But those changes are still in their own development and testing environments and are not deployed to the public yet since the video was released a couple of days ago, and the next patch will go in later this week. So everything they said in that video is not implemented yet in the current version. We need to wait for the next patch to go in, and even so we need to take this video with scepticism as instead refer to the actual release notes that will be given to us on patch day.

Just to confirm something, though. Your flight model is set to Modern right? Not legacy.

What red bar? The stall zone disappears when you reach 10 feet above ground level. So there’s no more Stall zone so it’s not possible to reach the red zone since they no longer appears.

I appreciate the invitation. But I just can’t bring myself to fly vanilla again. Simply because I know how to fly the ‘proper’ A320 as given by the mod. So flying the vanilla A320 no matter how good it could be, it’s simply a false result because it’s not what I believe from my perspective to be what the proper A320 is suppose to be.

Here’s another one that I flew just earlier today. I do live streaming to my Youtube channel whenever I fly the A320. Notice that the red bar zone on the airspeed ticker disappears at 10 feet callout. The landing is mostly depending on the technique.

If you still feel the behaviour is wrong. You can report the issue to their Github page. Just make sure you also supply them with the appropriate documentations and context to proof that the flight dynamics is wrong. That report will get vetted by real A320 engineers and pilots, and if they confirm that the behaviour is wrong as you said, then this would go to the developer for a fix. Otherwise, if the many engineers and pilots seem to think that the current behaviour is already correct. Then maybe it’s just you.

yes i know it depends on technique, landing is the thing that i dedicate myself most in flight simulators when i got my first flight simulator 2002, because for me it is the most fun part, but it is not because i can land it that the behavior nasially is correct. but thanks, I will document my views and forward you to the right place.

good flights

Also, bear in mind that when you delete anything in MSFS, most of your settings are kept “In the Cloud” and are restored when you reinstall.
What version of the Mod did you use? There are three of them.
It will make a big difference as to which version you used.

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I removed the fly by wire mod and then removed the a320 defult through the content manager.

I opened the simualdor I did the test. right after that I reinstalled the fly by wire again, opened the simualdor and did another test, and what I realized is that the two behave in different ways. as shown in the video.

before posting I decided to do the test again deleting the fly by wire and remaining with the defult, and really the result is this one that shows in the video.

My fly by wire is always up to date, every day I open the luncher to see if there is anything new, I use the stable version.

Currently after I noticed this difference I decided to merge the 2, I am using the mod (fly by wire) but I deleted the file of the “flight model” that comes with it leaving only the file of the standard aircraft, and it worked well apparently. for how long I will stay with him as asobo showed us that he is working with a team of pilots and, mechanics and engineers from different areas of aviation, for the improvement of aircraft so I prefer to have the flight model provided by them and not fly by wire.

before you ask me yes, the changes in buttons (inop) and in the systems made by fly by wire are still present, I just changed the flight model to the standard provided by asobo, however I still don’t think it’s 100% to the defult model, so I’m testing how it behaves by changing the Engine and target_peformance files, but until then it is working well for me and it seems much more comfortable and I need to perform the landings because the plane does not tend to glide excessively and really loses support after the spoilers are opened , not only on landing but also in the air, the spoilers and flaps in the defult model seem more effective, they seem to generate more drag than in the fly by wire model, it is something that only experiencing is easier to perceive.

You should know that ASOBO has actually implemented some of the FlybyWire mod crew’s findings to the default aircraft. FBWmod are way much more advanced in the A320 development than ASOBO ever will be, and they have lots of A320 pilots and engineers on their team as well.
Their advantage is that the aircraft mod is all they are working on, not a complete sim.
They are much more specialized than ASOBO.
In fact, real life airbus pilots have stated numerous times in here how much more lifelike the mod is.

I notice you didn’t mention which version of the mod you used?
Development, Stable, or Custom FlybyWire?
There is a huge difference between each one of them.

However, having said that, this sim is all about making it what you want, not what others do.
If you are happy that way, enjoy it, but you should know, it probably isn’t very realistic.

I use the stable version

That would be why you are seeing the results you are getting.
It is the “tamed” version.
If you want a fairer comparison, get the CustomFlybyWire version.

Here is a link to their new installer.

https://github.com/flybywiresim/installer/releases/download/vmaster/setup.exe

You will need to set up your throttle correctly by following this document.

You will see a huge difference.

If you aren’t sure and want more info, or want to discuss it further, just drop me a PM.

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Thanks for the tip! I will test as soon as possible

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A doubt. would the version you informed me in your last comment be this one (circled in red) that is present in the lancher? or do I necessarily need to download it via the link you provided me?

Yes it is.

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Just follow the throttle set up in the doc.

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WOW wow really, this version is far superior to stable and the development version, the seesaw movement disappeared at the time of landing. thank you very much for your tip, i will continue testing but the first impression pleased a lot.

thank you so much

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You are certainly welcome, glad you like it.

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Since you said that you keep your mod updated daily and always on the latest version. I automatically assume that you’re on the custom version hence why I was so confused to why you’re having issues while my custom version are not.

Glad you got it to work.

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Although I have to say, that some of our pilots have reported that, even with the custom FBW version, the plane is still a little too responsive on the runway (they mentioned it regarding the takeoff, but I think it’s the same issue like you described in the OP).

Remember that this is work in progress. We are far from finished. The vanilla flight model may be better, especially in this case (and be further developed by Asbobo), but it has many discrepancies on the other side (e.g. the high performance part). Everything is work in progress in the MSFS. Also and most important the SDK! So we have to be patient.

I prefer the FBW flight model. Not because I’m a tiny part of them, but I think overall the FBW flight model is (right now) much more accurate then the Asobo one. Which doesn’t mean it won’t be improved over the time. And Asobo will improve the vanilla A320 too.

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I prefer the the custom FBW over the Asobo one, especially in ground effect the aircraft handles much better. Can I ask, do you know why all airlines in MSFS seem to have the flight dynamics reversed? Even with the CG on the forward limit the CP is in front of the CG and there is a constant up-force on the horizontal stabilizer, also the CP moves aft with increasing angle of attack, in short everything seems to work in reverse order. Is there are reason for this? Thanks!

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