Ability to shift the RENDERED PLANE of environment and aircraft independently (separate frustums) for dual seat cockpits

Official Microsoft Flight Simulator Wishlist
43

@FearlessSwan217, @PaintedOrchid2, @BegottenPoet228, @FlyerOneZero, @BeardyBrun and all others in this topic.

This topic seems impossible and about to die as it went silent here but i like to bring to attention that there is a way to separate the world seem to disconnect from cockpit
Not really but from perspective yes.

This topic would not let go of me i think how to get this right before 2024 will become a fact this november.
I think i managed to shift the cockpit while the world stay in place, this is for dual cockpit
Essential en i hope you all like this in msfs 2020 with this way and set up left and right side with experimantal multiscreen this could be done imho for full setup

I uploaded two video s to my one drive cloud as a shared video’s for you all

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AucYBf9pTPdpvTqss3EjP748syRg

The videos are without sound but check them out

Here is a tease of what you can expect to see in the videos

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VideoCapture_20241107-102602
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of course in the video you will see better than the picture to get the point.

Here is how i did

I use this to the default A310-300 enhanced with default panama livery.
As it is fairly easy to archive editing airplanes own cameras.cfg
Here is my own editted A310-300 enhanced cameras.cfg in rtf with colours Green for guid
Red previous edited wrong view and outslashed to ignored
Yellow Editted for this purpose to archive the views as in the vid’s

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AucYBf9pTPdpvTue7uR_tNgBwM9c

I used left ctrl ÷ 9 for left oriented and left ctrl + 0 for right oriented (i use for example) but from left ctrl+2 to +0 will do,
(except dont use left ctrl+1 for it has double function with two viewpoints and this becomes handy when you want call sideview upfront for single screen users but is a different story see pictur below

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).

My A310-300 cameras.cfg here it is for you to check it out for the setting
Editted for the two viewpoints at the same time for the best result to compare
Set all Initialxyz= and InitialPbh= to 0.0 and Initialzoom= to what you like (less is zoom in as in the whole image)
The Initial z is for translate forward/backward and Initial x for translate left/right and Initial y for height/lower of the cockpit position on the image
Also it is very important that the ingame overall zoom setting, height setting and position (as in left/right) setting, is set for default at 50 which is located in game ui under camera settings before editting the cameras.cfg.
Also very important is that you work the initals one by one in order of distance to set up center of cockpit (two front glareshield centered on one screen or divided over two screens depending on how many frontview screens you have) now you set initialzoom to youre desired liking it is from this preparation where you start the rest of the position and setting of the both views.
Most important is you have centered the view and as you have done correctly you notice that on both use of the left ctrl+9 and left ctrl+0 give the same view compared to center and height of runway end and horizon as when switch these view there is no movement of the world outside and in cockpit

After this you can change to archive where cockpit needs to be displayed, but do not change
the heading and pan and if you want to do so than change it equally to both and make sure the displayed image keeps it the same in the total view
Also note that sometimes you need to mirror think about so edit right as plus the number than subtract for left as in logical but can confuse.

Sebastiaan

44

I can’t work out what you’re demonstrating here.

It simply looks like the camera moving between the left and right of the cockpit.

45

@BeardyBrun

I dont know if you have seen the videos but i made a more in detailed description to explain
Better of what i did so i hope it is better to understand now.

I think the OP is looking for this

Sebastiaan

46

@PHSepp796 nice work. That said, having to hand-edit camera configs is not an ideal solution. It shows that it should be easy enough to have a proper eyepoint adjustment (as opposed to a camera origin adjustment) as FSX had.

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I agree it should be more simplified as on eyepoint view unfortunatly i think it is more up to aircraft devellopment scale than to how the world looks in the sim.
Also i strongly believe that when the views are all redone in this way it will eliminate some kind of the stutters due less re calculation between the different viewpoints while the world is stable displayed.

Thanks for your input

48

I still need to go watch the video, but I’ll do that later today!

49

The landing is sloppy but my focus was at my keyboard switching :wink:

50

I have downloaded your videos and will have a look.

I have given up on the idea of MSFS ever implimenting the thing we want - as has been previously described by me and @FlyerOneZero.

(Anybody reading here who does not know what we are talking about needs to go right to the top of this topic and read through a bit)

There is just no way to move the outside world to the eye point required (when sitting off centre to the left) while keeping the view of the cockpit centred (for multi-screen cockpits.)

What I have resigned myself to do is set up a special view for takeoff and landing that puts the runway exaclty in front of my eye (in the left seat).
Pretty much like the first photo by @PHSepp796 - except I have the right and left TV screens showing the rest of the cockpit.
I can achieve this without pushing the windscreen of the plane too far off centre - like the default MSFS pilot view is.

Once I am airborne I just click a button that repositions the cockpit and I feel like everything is centre again.

It works pretty well.

I have now seen your videos. Thanks.
Unfortunately, your videos just demonstrate the problem - not the solution.
All you are doing is moving the cockpit right and left with the world staying exactly where it is - with the runway during landing centred on the screen.

The opposite is what I am askng for. I want to be able to adjust the position of the world (outside view) while the cockpit remains fixed in the centre of the front screen.

So if you had a video where your cockpit remained in a fixed position, and the outside view of the runway was moving - laterally - from left to right without altering orientation/angle of the approach to the runway, then you would have what I have been suggesting.

You made a good effort. But what you showed is what I have already seen as the fundamental problem.

Thaks again
Cheers

1 Like
51

Hi there @FearlessSwan217,

Thanks for your reply
I gave it one more try today and in this video it seems that it shift the complete image
Instead of the cockpit only

I started to setup without airplane in the image with a tripple screen setup.
After i called the aircraft back in the screen and found myself outside the cockpit with the views but i was expected this
So i had to narrow the InitialXyz on the X to bring pilot and co more together (for my screens are not that big), to fit on main with centerview.
To the left and right is like u said come out a bit of with positioning but is able to shift image
for left or right seat preference (in dual seat cockpit the one in control uses the proper viewpoint) the other sees stil allright and acceptable.

I think i would be happy if there would be a second initalxyz could be possible just to get
the instruments panel in the (mainscreen)center.

I have not edit the pan and bank angles but i reckon this can be usefull if needed.

At least i was able to move the centerline to the left and right in sync with seatview
And kept horizontally aligned

Hope you can agree with this video and if not
At least it was fun to do and gave me some more insightfull lesson.

Thanks

Sebastiaan

52

Hi Sebastiaan,
You are determined, I will give you that.
I understand what you are trying to achieve, but what you are seeing in your latest example is exactly what I am seeing in my cockpit.
Notice that you are moving the entire aeroplane with the landscape.
This is what I want to eliminate.
We want the aeroplane/cockpit/windscreen to remain stationary in a position that the pilot would see sitting in the left seat.
The ONLY thing we want to move is the position/angle of the runway
We want to be able to line up the runway independently.
When we move the runway to line up with the pilot view, we do NOT want the angle of the aeroplane, cockpit and windscreen to shift.

Achieving this would mean that full cockpit builders can have a genuine view of a pilot in the left seat - rather than as it is currently set up only for a seat positioned in the center of the front monitor.

As @FlyerOneZero has pointed out before, this used to be available in previous MSFS versions and is available in some other flight sims.

Like I say, I have given up chasing it and I have managed to create a landing and take off view that achieves the objective (even though it offsets the view of the cockpit into the right monitor a little way.)

Thanks again for trying though.
Cheers
Alan

53

There is another way, one I’ve been using for a couple of years.

Stretch the main window across 2 x 65" screens. The pilot and copilot are sitting to the left and right of the center line, in front of their respective virtual on-screen yokes. For more verisimilitude, hide the virtual on-screen yokes.

You now have shared cockpit, ndvyou only need one computer, one copy of all your add-ons, etc., Just duplicate controllers. And an extra chair :slight_smile:

54

Thanks @barbra6456.
I already have three screens. Here is a link to pictures of my cockpit.

I posted some of these earlier in this topic.

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@PHSepp796
I realise some of my previous videos may have been confusing - so I have made an updated video showing the runway being adjusted independently while the instrument panel (and cockpit on the side screens) stays where it has been set.

@barbra6456

56

No, you are reading me completely wrong. This has nothing to do with other sims.

1 get 2 screens 65" or bigger, side by side
2 stretch the main window across both of them

Your centerline will be between the 2 screens, your pilot’s seat will be centered on the left screen, your copilots seat will be centered on the right screen.

For greater utility, hide the yokes. You both have flight yokes or hotas or whatever in front of you irl, and the virtual yokes block the instrument views.

Can’t wait (well, actually, I can) to swap the 65" screens for 85" screens in a few years, as prices continue to drop.

57

Hi @barbra6456

So basically you are saying a 4 monitor/tv setup where the midst 2 screens act as one.
Or am i wrong about this

58

Im still digesting this while it is very fluent, but doubt this is msfs2020 for if it was there would not be the issue at all

59

Actually, just the mid 2 screens. The FoV is ~200 degrees, projected onto a flat plane. I tried 4 screens, but it’s so weird looking to your left and seeing not just the rear, but part of the other side.

See the photos here: 11 Foot Main View

It’s like panavision - flying into Bora Bora never looked so good.

Use the 3rd screen for utilities like LittleNavMap :slight_smile:

60

Other than the obvious difference in scale, this is no different to a 32:9 screen.

It still doesn’t address the issue, because that’s impossible without fundamental changes to the way the image is rendered.

1 Like
61

The scale makes all the difference. 3x wider and higher physically means that physically pilot and copilot are in the proper physical position, not like crammed together behind a ■■■■■■■ too-small overpriced “wide screen gaming monitor” with less than half the pixels.

Seeing is believing. There’s no way two people can sit in the right places with a 49" screen - they will both be seriously offset from where they need to be physically.

It’s like the difference between a 19" screen and a 49" screen - but 3x over.

Or movies on a TV or at an IMAX. The bigger size lets both people sit behind the pilot and copilot yokes, respectively. Can’t do that with a 49" widescreen.

And of course the instruments are also 3x the size.

62

Sorry Mate. I have no idea what you are driving at.
Did you actually take a look at the pictures of my cockpit.
I have three 55 inch screens, one at the front and one on each side.
Your idea may be OK for your desktop but it is no solution to the issue that is the subject of this topic… as pointed out by @BeardyBrun.

Respectfully, please do not confuse the discussion of this thread without understandng the actual issue raised from the beginning.

Kind regards.