You are 100% right. I think the answer as to why AH doesn’t change their business practices is very clear. They simply do not care. Unfortunately, they seem content to release half a product at full price, grab the money they can, and move on. They are not interested in spending the resources to make good sounds nor fix and support their products, and they are not concerned with their reputation in the community. I think at some point they will have to join forces with someone else or otherwise only focus on producing physical models. I can’t see this business plan succeeding long term.
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Sounds truly strange and other-worldly. At 65 years old I have been to enough airshows to recognize an R2800 by ear from a mile away. That isn’t even close-
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Or they may be unable. Someone pointed out in another thread that (at least at the time) they’d been trying to hire people for ages. Many months, more than a year…
Making these things takes a lot of talent to do it right. They clearly have talent when it comes to the look of the model. They may not have the talent for sounds.
Trying hard isn’t a reason to price something against another developer who does have the talent though.
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More is broken on the P-47 than just the sound, unfortunately.
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yeah - the ‘money grab’ complaint is tired. I try to look at what IS included. Then I look at what all it takes to make an aircraft addon for MSFS - the visual model, the textures, the features, the sounds, the flight model and so on.
Some developers are bound to have strengths and weaknesses because the necessary skill sets are various and require a depth of knowledge and experience unlike for previous iterations of flight sim.
The sound files are a sticking point or chokepoint for every developer because it’s all new. Those who have experience manipulating wWise are charging a premium for their services.
AH in general do a good job in the other categories overall - not perfect - but decent. The community has members who are adept at enhancing or correcting various flaws or shortcomings and that’s a really important, even vital component of MSFS content development that I think everyone recognizes.
Could AH do a better job of communicating? following up with their customers and products? I think there’s a consensus reply to those questions.
But I don’t think accusing them of stealing will do anything to create a better bond between them and the community writ large.
I was happy to see this plane had been released but the reviews and price point have been off putting. They at AH should know by now that their products seem to require assistance from the community to make right and price their products more accordingly in my opinion.
I don’t post this to offend anyone.
I DO think it is time though, for both Asobo and the 3rd party commercial developers to recognize the members of the community who do the best mods and enhancements to their paid products. Sure - we can donate or do the ‘cupa coffee’ thing - but its time for some official recognition - awards and renumeration from those who benefit the most from what these few community members have done. There are products I would NOT have bought without them..including this flight sim.
I think it is high time we have a discussion about THAT.
**EDIT - Aeroplane Heaven have done a good job of updating their P-47 and also responded immediately to an inquiry I sent to their help desk and worked quickly to solve an issue I was having with the plane. Prompt and effective customer service adds tremendous value to any product. I have no problem supporting such a company and am happy with my purchase at the price I paid.
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I’m purely speculating/guessing but maybe AH is short-staffed on expertise. One of their team members also left the Sim-Outhouse forums after, in my words, too much constructive criticism got to them. Rather than responding to issues, they threw the “rivet counters” label at the crowd then bowed out.
The fact that they didn’t showcase sounds in their previews and users had to discover the poor quality seems a bit “deceptive by omission” to me, and knowing their at minimum delay, if not reluctance, to competently “fix” products they previously released that had a number of errors due to perhaps being rushed, I’m no longer confident in this developer.
I’m not sure what their alpha and beta testing regime is like, but it sounds to me like it’s “in house” and/or friends and family oriented.
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People keep buying and the community is doing the heavy lifting for them, so why should AH change?
They’ve been in the business of developing FS add-ons for a very long time and they don’t seem able to accept that standards have risen and they need to either raise their game accordingly or drop their prices so that the shortcomings of their products would be easier to stomach.
If they dipped out of SOH that really says something about where they’re at, because they were posting there all the way back in the FS9 days and SOH generally has (or at least had) an extremely “developer friendly” atmosphere where even the most polite constructive criticism was often treated as uncouth.
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If it is a case of them being beyond their means in terms of expertise or manpower, or both, then I really do hope they combine efforts with another production team. Rock out a great product. Support it. The respect and trust of the community will return with time. Funnel those rewards into your next project, and so on.
I realize that this is a gross simplification, but as an aviation lover I think we all win when each project can be fully developed into something that truly honors the subject.
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There are not as many P-47s left as P-51s, but there are enough of them in flying condition that if you are a serious developer you can get in touch with people and set up high quality recordings.
If the sound was truly reflective of the real aircraft, I might have purchased this release.
But just this one video shared a few post higher, has put me off from it. The P-47 has a very distinctive sound, in part because of the way the big radial engine is supercharged.
I love warbirds, all of them really. But because so many of the currently flying examples were rebuilt by WestPac at my homebase until it was demolished, the Jug is my favorite American warbird.
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I might have good news for those that bought this add-on.
I was watching today a video about how to make airshow cameras using replaytool and the drone camera. The person doing the video used the F86 Sabre because it has a great soundpack made from Echo 19 Studios. The same studio that did the CH47 Chinook and is working in the IFE Tornado AND the AeroplaneHeaven P47.
So if this guy has the right info then the sounds might just be a placeholder and the real soundpack is going to be awesome.
Now why the plane was released with bad sounds if they are going to be great eludes me. It’s like they are trying to get bad press to minimize sales when the sounds are ready. I just don’t get it but anyway I wanted to drop this piece of info here as a glint of hope for those that bought this.
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UPDATE:
I have taken some additional time to flesh out my initial comments on the Aeroplane Heaven P-47D. I hope these comments will be of help to those considering purchasing this add-on and also will find their way to the Devs at AH to help them correct some of their shortcomings with this airplane.
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The flap handle lacks animation. The flaps themselves work according to the standard key binding, but no animation of the handle to show whether you are raising or lowering the flaps; unacceptable.
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Yaw trim does not work. When invoked via the standard key binding for yaw trim, the rudder trim when will move with excrutiating slowness, but nevertheless does not affect yaw either right or left; unacceptable.
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The aileron trim control simply does not work. This is exacerbated by the fact that the plane has a marked (and realistic) roll to port, requiring trim, but neither the standard key bindings, nor the aileron trim wheel, can be made to work. RCTL NUM6/NUM4 will bias the stick to left or right but cancels as soon as the stick is touched; in any case, this is not roll trim and is not accceptable.
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AEROPLANE HEAVEN FIX YOUR TRIMS!
On the ground preparatory to takeoff, I advance the throttle as far as it would go and achieved only 45" of MAP, it should be capable of 52", without ground boosting. I was able to take off and climb to 16,000 feet, and when I looked at the manifold pressure gauge- you guessed it- it was holding steady at 45". So we lost zero manifold pressure from 0 to 16,000 ft? I can see 52" down to 42", but a rock steady 45"? “That dog don’t hunt…”
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While climbing I also noticed that my oil cooler shutters and my intercooler doors were closed by default. Cowl flaps were closed by me. After a climb to 16,000 feet, oil temperature, as well as cylinder head temperature were well down in the “cool” portions of their gauges, and were not moving- Hmmmmmm…
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Methanol/Water injection was introduced on the P-47 with the P-47D-4, the AH version we have is stated to be a -15, and yet I cannot locate even the controls for water injection. (If I have overlooked something please call it out). MW injection would be a far more appropriate feature in a non-combat flight simulator than working guns or bombs IMHO. Why was it not included?
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I have no confidence that the engine sounds will be addressed. From inside the cockpit, they are actually intolerable after a period of time. I have taken the liberty of aliasing the sounds of the FI Hellcat to the AH P-47 and the result is very satisfactory. This was my choice, your mileage may vary. I have no more to say about the sounds since other more qualified persons have addressed these, and in any case, they are no longer a problem for me.
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A word about liveries- AH has provided a large assortment of liveries- kudos to them. However- and I am not sure what to ascribe this to- the ANM (All Natural Metal) finishes in no way resemble aircraft aluminum (“aluminium” to you Brits) as they rightfully should. Instead, they appear to be an almost titanium or stainless steel appearance which for me is rather jarring and makes the airplane look many time heavier than it should. Other 3rd party developers have liveries which show a more realistic ANM finish; what went wrong with the Jug?
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Final thoughts- I in no way intended for this to be a screed against AH. I love most of the subjects they choose to model, and some of their work, like their Chipmunk and the Spitfire 1a, is top shelf stuff. So what happened with the Thunderbolt, my all-time favorite WWII icon? My advice to AH is to do what is right here, and polish their product so that it more closely resembles what we thought we were buying. The comments on these pages show that the patience of many of their customers has grown thin. You have choices to make, Aeroplane Heaven. So do your customers. $33.00 USD is not “throw away” money for folks some of these days. If this is to become indicative of your ongoing business model, I suspect it may perform differently than perhaps you had hoped. Good luck.
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Thanks for all the feedback - and a salute to everyone who took one (or, I guess, bought one) for the team.
Don’t see anything here that’ll get me off the fence - so far, am leaning against it. It’s a long time since I gave way to “I love the airplane so I’ve got to have the sim version.” Been burned too many times that way.
AH is frustratingly erratic. They’ve done some good work over the years, and also some abysmal work.As the Sim Outhouse experiences suggests, encounters with the developers can be strange. I’ve posted before about the time I bought the C-47/DC-3 for P3D and wasn’t able to start the latter. The solution turned out to be a couple of lines of code that had to be rewritten. But on the way there, I was treated to a customer service rep telling me that I was the kind of user who’d really appreciate and should be using the EZ-Start option or whatever they called it. Needless to say, that conversation didn’t go well.
I’d love to seem them partner with other devs for systems and other shortcomings (like sound, which seems to be a non-starter).
@Nazarene455 - that’s disappointing about the trims and also about the engine temps. I wouldn’t expect deep systems simulation or failures but at least the gauges should be moving correctly. Part of the fun of flying a P-47 is managing all that plumbing. The A2A one was my crash course (sometimes literally) in radial engines, back in the day.
Bottom line - hope they keep after it - I’d be a happier camper if they succeeded.
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Hope that’s true - but if it is, why didn’t they announce that at the start. Other devs have taken the “custom sounds to follow” route, without community blowback.
You are asking me why they never said who was doing sounds, and why they released a plane with bad sounds instead of waiting to have a great package? The answer is very simple: Aeroplane Heaven.
I don’t think anyone here can find any logic in what they do.
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Well I woke up to everyone’s reviews and I am not surprised in the slightest. That sound is so headache inducing, you can even hear it loop. I don’t know how AH stay afloat when they offer such mediocre planes for top dollar prices. Perhaps the Asobo partnership kept them afloat?
Even if a community member does fix it, as some have tried with the P51, it still feels icky to give AH that much coin for a half finished bird.
As someone who loves warbirds, it is very disappointing. I hope A2A bring their warbirds to MSFS, but I guess we’ll be waiting a while. Until then we at least have Flying Iron.
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Sorry, should have been clearer. Wasn’t asking you specifically. Was asking the universe.
The universe said the same thing you did: Aeroplane Heaven.
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@anon4683901 I think there is a misunderstanding. Echo 19 Audio has developed the sounds for the upcoming Aeroplane Heaven Spitfire Prototype, Mk.V and Hurricane. From what I understand the Mk.I Spitfire will also receive a sound update. But Echo 19 Audio was sadly not involved in the P-47.
There is only a small chance, but I really hope the soundset will get updated/replaced. It’s enjoyable to fly and apart from the almost black natural metal paint schemes it’s one of Aeroplane Heavens better looking aircraft. Especially the cockpit looks a lot better than previous releases. But the sounds are horrible for an almost 40 € addon. Ignoring all the other small issues, with a better soundset this could be a great addon.
I’ve never replaced/linked the sound folders of other aircraft in MSFS. Is it possible to replace the sounds with the one from Blackbirds Corsair or Flying Irons Hellcat? And if it is how?
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Thank you for the clarification!
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The weird thing about the sound is that the product page says they had a third-party vendor do Wwise sound for them. The older sounds people cite above were in-house, so I’d have expected these to be solid if AH paid good money to a sound engineer for them.
I hope you’ve either posted these on their Facebook account or sent them to help@aeroplaneheaven.com …
(Though bug feedback is generally more easily digested without all-caps and snark. Not saying those aren’t justified, but perhaps sticking to the facts is best when reporting issues directly to devs. They are human, and for every 20 things that are frustrating purchasers, there are 500 things they nailed and got right.)
Since MS literally prohibits using these forums for tech support, reporting issues here hoping they’ll be seen by devs is sometimes useful, but is also sometimes…
No issues with your post’s content, which is useful descriptions of issues for folks who might be unhappy about those, just flagging the “hope the devs see it” part.
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Yeah. I would love to do this for another aircraft too. But when I looked the sounds are all in a packed file. And not just engine sounds. I guess there may be a tool to unpack it and repack it. I’m also not sure you can swap a flat sound pack with a Wwise sound pack.
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