Anybody Rocking The Pimax Crystal Super With 2024?

[Tinkicker01]

Just ordered the super with the 57ppd display. I guess I may see it turn up sometime close to xmas.

Pimax say my 4080 is a recommended card for a good experience, but have to say I am somewhat sceptical.

I think I may have to turn the resolution down until I get a more powerful card. I do not see how a 4080 will handle native resolution without shocking framerates.

Anyone using one without rocking a top tier card like a 5090 and how does it perform?

I guess the super even on medium resolution will top my present reverb g2 clarity wise short term?

[OldpondGL]

You should be fine with native resolution and Medium or lower settings. I have my Valve Index turned up to near Pimax resolution, and I get 40fps with those settings. Lucky you!

[Michail71]

With a 4090 and a Crystal OG I feel like I struggle on native resolution to get 40~45 fps and that usually involves some blurry glass panels and ghosting. Otherwise it looks good, MSFS 2024 visual oddities aside.

I’m not sure how others are pushing higher resolution headsets.

I’ve become resolved to using VR Zoom (as poorly as it is implemented in MSFS 2020 and 2024) to look at glass panels.

[DocAdnanA]

I just got a Crystal Super 50 ppd lenses about 3 weeks ago. Came from the OG Crystal with the Apache strap.

The Crystal Super is sharper , brighter and has a large FOV but not a dramatic increase. Sitting in the C172, you can see the whole of the front panel, where as in the Crystal OG, the right side of the panel was cut off so you would have to turn your head.

Sweet spot is great. You can adjust the Quadviews area though to increase it depending on your eye movement.

It is not as comfortable as the OG crystal [ with the apache headstrap]. I attached the top strap too for the Super but i think i will put the Apachae strap on instead which makes it very comfortable.

Auto - IPD seems off .

Image quality- takes a lot of tweaking. Had to move the Pimax Play software IPD offset settings , [horizontal settings] to between +0.8+1.2 , [Based on a reddit tip] As before that it did not have a good image [ eye strain and seemed off]. Changing the IPD offset made a huge difference and also increased the depth perception/ binocular vision. Before that, i was almost going to return it and go back to my OG Crystal.

I found +1.5 increased the 3D sense [ binocular vision] but increased eye strain, so +1.2 in both eyes seems fine for me for longer flights.

Lately, on starting a flight and getting in the cockpit, i have had some weird flickering randomly [ like the VR headset is batting an eyelid! The whole display, left or right lens goes black for a mili-second, just like you were batting your eye lids. Very irritating.

Its only happened twice though. Not sure whats causing it . Thought i had a defective headset.But on more experimentation, this may be a FS20204 bug , as Steam VR programs run just fine with no issues.

Colors of the OG Crystal seemed more natural. The Super seems a bit too over-contrasted, saturated . But that can be dialed down in the PImax Play software

Overall i like it, and going back to the OG Crystal now feels 20% dimmer and maybe 25-30 % less sharp. I’m still hanging on to my rock solid, stable OG Crystal, because with Pimax, you never know re: quality control.

Overall the headset does not have a huge WOW factor when you put it on. But it does take dialing in and getting used to, rather than a wow factor as soon as you put it on.

[HugeMercury163]

@Tinkicker01

I think I may have to turn the resolution down until I get a more powerful card. I do not see how a 4080 will handle native resolution without shocking framerates.

I have the 50ppd Super with a 4090. Using eye tracking foveated rendering, if you change your VR RenderScale in the config file from the default 0.5 to 0.25 or even 0.2 you will get a hefty increase in FPS. Depending on your in game settings you may be able to run at full res with a 4080, at least in rural areas in GA aircraft. If not, you can either reduce the resolution down in Pimax play and/or use DLSS Performance mode. Whatever, with a few days of tinkering and you should get both decent performance and good visuals with a 4080.

[Michail71]

Yes, ignore my prior post. I took @HugeMercury163’s advice today. Dropping the FoveatedRenderScale seems to be the magic I’ve spent years looking for. It’s like going from a 4090 to a 6090.

You can bump up the res and quality in a rather narrow spot of wherever your eyes are looking.

Our actual eyes aren’t that good. It’s mostly our brains filling in the details. I think there is even some room for improvement in how the sim renders out of the fov boundaries. Any rendering outside of a small region is waisted computing power.

[Michail71]

@DocAdnanA

It is not as comfortable as the OG crystal [ with the apache headstrap]. I attached the top strap too for the Super but i think i will put the Apachae strap on instead which makes it very comfortable.

How is the face interface? On my OG I had to build out the sides a little thicker using Velcro layers from the Apache kit to get it stable on my head.

Also, the balance without the battery pack? On the OG I added a counterweight hanging by paracord to get the balance just right.

I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on the oled 8K now.

[HugeMercury163]

Just to wow you further. Here’s a screenshot I took just now. I set resolution override in PiPlay to 1.2 which gives 7488 x 7536 pixels. With VR render scale set at 0.2 in the config file, I now have sharper graphics and was getting 55-58fps in the Got Friends AS33me glider using TAA mode. Clouds on high in this test.

Bottom pic is cropped from the top image.

5800x3D, 4090.

[Michail71]

Is there any difference in doing it in the Pimax software vs. in the sim settings?

I’m thinking the 0.5 default is way too high considering how our eyes work for real. That’s something I picked up being into photography 20+ years ago. A good lens has to capture way more than our eye need to.

[HugeMercury163]

@Michail71

Is there any difference in doing it in the Pimax software vs. in the sim settings?

Not sure. I either set the resolution override in Pimax Play above 1.0, as it’s easier. Or I could set it using the Toolkit. With TAA mode only you can set render higher or low than 100% in the sim but I don’t use that, so can’t say.

Whatever. I could get even more performance using the Ohne Speed mod of the Toolkit and lower the vertical FOV and resolution. But I’m happy with what I have now.

[Tinkicker01]

Thanks guys, having no clue whatsoever about the pimax software or eye tracking yet, reading between the lines, I think you are saying that reducing the size of the high res window to the point where the low resolution area starts to encroach on your vision, then widen it slightly till it disappears and rely on the eye tracking to keep everything sweet is the first tweak for best performance?

Second tweak is reduce vertical FOV as you really do not need to see the cockpit carpet and headliner in your peripheral vision? I have a lot to learn about pimax software and its features. Presently my knowledge of it is zero.

Currently running reverb at a pixel density of maybe around 1.2 to 1.3 in 2024 with most VR settings on ultra and high. 4080 at these settings is running at 90% with smooth flight. Only time I get the jitters in the comanche is on the ground with bought in, high detail airports.

I do seem to have a high tolerence for lower framerates though, brought about when DCS VR optimisation in oculus cv1 days was horrific. When some people were complaining about nausea I just thought to see past the jitters.

I think I may be slightly CPU bound now as my now five year old build has already had its two year refresh (replace 2080ti with 4080 and add another 32gb of ram) and my i9 9900k based system running at a slight overclock from stock 3.5 Ghz to 4.7Ghz.

Pity game devs cannot utilise all the cores efficiently as overall the CPU is running at 50% and rarely goes above 60c. However the core probably used for rendering often hits 100%.

Therefore I feel I have come to the end of the road with the I9 setup. It will be many months until receive the crystal probably, so I think my priority spend at the moment is likely going down the ryzen 9950X3 rabbit hole.

As for another posted comment re momentary black screens, yes that is something that has been introduced since update 3, happens very rarely and is not a big deal, but seems to happen sometimes when you suddenly move your head.

[GarnNilpferd635]

This is going to sound rude to many of you and I apologize but here we go:

Congrats on your new headset! The good news is: you can still return it and get a Quest 3 with virtual desktop, a proper wifi setup and still have cash leftover for a better GPU.

Don´t listen to people who post 2D screenshots from their monitor view. Persistent Pimax users are just in denial from severe buyers remorse or a paid chills. Then many of them also don´t know what VR is supposed to look and feel like. I usually stop reading when someone talks about their smooth 48 FPS VR experience….

Any FPS below panel refresh rate is not smooth. Period. That´s it. You can´t prove me wrong.

Now virtual desktop on Quest 3 will help you significantly to achieve full refresh rate with it´s SSW (snychronous space warp) technoloy even on maxed out settings. It´s a form of reprojection algorythm that will double your PC´s framerate output at no extra performance cost and it´s kind of a industry standard in VR. All the headsets feature some form of it. Except guess who don´t

[stekusteku]

We indeed can’t prove you wrong because you don’t want to listen. You generalize your individual experience, without understanding that other people perception may work work differently and they may have different priorities in VR (temporal vs. spatial quality of the image).

[GarnNilpferd635]

Good for you.

Now name one native standalone Game (Meta Quest, Pico) or PSVR game that has not been highly optimized to almost always run at FPS matching refresh rate.

Cant think of one? Almost as if the rest of the world doesn´t agree with you… Except every Pimax user, ever …

Look, i´ve owned the PCL for 2 days before rage-returning it. And yes the Clarity and Colors are mindblowing but everything else just doesn´t work right. Overall it´s a miserable experience compared to a well tuned Q3 setup. And with enough supersampling you will get a Q3 to almost 90% there, except the colors. Don´t even get me started on the pimax lenses. All forums are full of lens distortion issue threads with pimax crystal. They just can´t do it right. Maybe let the multi billion dollar companies like meta figure it out instead

[stekusteku]

MSFS2024 is not a game, it’s a simulator.

For DCS full of rapid combat movements I would probably opt for FPS = refresh rate or 1/2 refresh rate if not other way would be possible, native with DFR, without any SpaceWarp or “reprojection”. For HLA I would opt for FPS = refresh rate without a doubt, even more for BeatSaber.

For MSFS where I fly gently like I also do in the RW with my wife setting next to me and enjoying the flight, I prefer resolution over FPS. You may have your own preference, but all preferences are highly individual.

[HugeMercury163]

This is all something we all have to try out and see for ourselves. VR in flight simulators involves a fair degree of tinkering to see what works best for you. No one solution works for everyone.

Now, regarding GarnNilpferd635 opinions, which offend me not at all btw, although I disagree with him:

As stekusteku has rightly pointed out, people’s perceptions differ and what we settle on depends on personal preferences. What I might deem enjoyable, others may say it makes them feel sick.

As I prefer to fly the types of aircraft as I did in RL, like gliders, gyroplanes and even biplanes, I prioritise sharpness both in the cockpit and the scenery…the closer I can get to retina level detail the happier I am. Horses for courses.

What I most definitely no longer want personally is the god-awful screen door effect of Quest headsets, my Pico 4 or the HP Reverb G2 with Fresnel lenses that I started out with in VR (excellent value for money that they are). Which is why I spend the big bucks on things like a Pimax Crystal OG and now the Super.

If people don’t agree with me, that’s perfectly fine. Anyway, at my age I couldn’t give a rat’s posterior.

[GarnNilpferd635]

Good for both of you.

Old age or not, you are missing out on a much better VR experience. You might be fine with it but others following your advice might get turned away from VR because they can´t stand the stuttering which together with the bad lenses might even give them brain damage if they stick to it, honestly

Pimax is a prime example for how sometimes high price is not = high quality

[Tinkicker01]

Yes agree fully. As stated before, I can live with framerates likely as low as the high 20s down low in the weeds.

I am fully satisfied with the clarity in the cockpit of the comanche even with my reverb. If I want to read the tiny print on the gauges, all I have to do is lean forward.

Even in DCS, my priority was always the flying, rather than the fighting, and I set targets in my missions just to give me a reason to fly a hour and a half somewhere, drop some bombs and fly an hour and a half back to base. Rest of the time, it was looking out the cockpit, picking my nose and watching the ground pass by.

Same with 2024. My priority is detail on the ground. If a building I am flying over has windows and a door, I want to see them from 2000ft, not just a vague blurry view of a rooftop and walls with indeterminate washes of colour. If this means framerates in the 30s, it is a sacrifice I am willing to make. I have no problem with a little stuttering when looking around the cockpit, not ideal.and admitedly annoying but workable for 90% of the flight experience.

Most of my flights are long affairs spent at 3000ft and above in the comanche. Typical one I am in the middle of right now. I am a sky gypsy delivering aircraft parts around europe.. Avoid long overwater flights wherever possible.

Leeds Bradford UK to Dijon France. Overnight. Next flight Dijon to Nice via Marsailles. Next leg Nice to Rome. Rome to Luqa on Malta via Sicily. I am on the return leg and arrived in Naples yesterday.

Next leg will be Naples to Milan, cross the Alps to Switzerland, across Europe and back to Leeds Bradford.

[Michail71]

@Tinkicker01

Thanks guys, having no clue whatsoever about the pimax software or eye tracking yet, reading between the lines

I suspect with the eye tracking tuned a bit you may see increased performance with better visuals. It’s very substantial.

For me, the biggest issue with Pimax headsets is comfort and fit. The Crystal was unusable out of the box, I almost returned it. It took me a bit of work to get the face interface reshaped. Just have some patience to get it correct.

[Michail71]

@GarnNilpferd635

Don´t listen to people who post 2D screenshots from their monitor view. Persistent Pimax users are just in denial from severe buyers remorse or a paid chills. Then many of them also don´t know what VR is supposed to look and feel like. I usually stop reading when someone talks about their smooth 48 FPS VR experience….

??

I have a Quest also and there is no way I’d use it for MSFS over the Crystal. I also would not use the Crystal for Beat Saber.

The Quest is still a good option. But the clarity is nowhere near the Crystal. Even the G2 has better clarity in the center.

That and Meta seems to be doing everything they can to kill off the PCVR market.