Are directly illuminated clouds, color INVERTED? (grey/dark clouds)

Since the very first day with FS20, something that catched my (our) eyes were the amazing clouds, boy, they are fabulous!, specially when looked from the backlight side. However, there is a caveat. When the view is pointing to the direct illuminated clouds, they look way too “dark” or grey while the edges of the puffed parts are whiter.

Sometimes, things on the ground look whiter than the clouds, and thats something quite rare I would say, other than when clouds are under other clouds of course. Clouds should be much much whiter than they are now.

Looking closely to them (remember I’m refering to the directly illuminated side), I think the way they are colored seems to have something wrong, like they should look “inverted” in colour, I mean, the normal surfaces to the camera look dark while the more tangent (edges) look white. I think it should be the other way around, white normal surfaces and dark edges.

I did a little experiment, inverting the clouds in a couple of pics and adjusting brighness and contrast. Just a quick test to check if this could be correct, and I think there is definitely something to look at.

Real life:

Msfs (first the original, then the photoshoped one):


Shadow casting aside (because of course, in my inverted image, shadows are also inverted and so missing and that shouldnt be the case, I mean, shadows should be dark like in the original FS pic), the rest of the clouds look much closer to the real thing, with white normals and dark edges, which makes sense to me, as the max amount of reflected light should come from the normal surfaces to the camera while the edges (tangent to the camera angle and thus to the light, as remember we are talking about directly lighted clouds) look dark. If this inverted image could have proper dark casted shadows, it would look absolutely fantastic imho.

The original FS directly illuminated clouds have dark normals and white edges.

Here is a little comparison of the 3 images:

Few real life pics to compare:

I suspect, that the problem when looking the clouds at the directly illuminated face, is that the rendering/shaders seem to render these clouds in the same way they are rendered when looked from the backlighted side (dark inner normals where clouds are denser and thus less light scapes and white lit edges), but when looking the clouds from the lighted perspective they should be “inverted”. This would make clouds whiter (as they should), more detailed, less grainy and more realistic.

Of course, this would need adjusting and some work, but I think it would worth it as would make for much better clouds.

what do you think?

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Since SU5 the majority of the time all clouds are grey

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Thing is how someone has their screen set up will effect how it looks for each person and also the exposure will effect the colour of the clouds.

These comparison only any use if we know the exposure setting on the camera was correct when it was taken.
Maybe they should add an exposure settings as changing this on the pics above changes how dark or white they are.

@AlexLegend165

Maybe but I think they are more or less like always

@DORRAGER

Sorry but NO. No exposition would change an INVERTED image (blacks are white, whites are black). Exposure would only change how dark are blacks or how bright are whites. This is about inversion, nothing to do with exposure or monitor adjustments.

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Only fair comparison is to see it on a correctly calibrated screen and to know the right settings were used when taking the photo and that the sun was in the same position relative to the clouds

Of course monitor settings are gonna have an effect on how they look just changing the brightness setting alone changes how white or grey they look.

Anyway I’m not against cloud improvements.

Ok, once again: Calibration has absolutely nothing to do with inversion. If you take an image and then invert its colors it will still look inverted no matter how much you change the calibration of your monitor/gpu or whatever.

My point is that when you look to clouds to its illuminated face (opposite of backlight) the rendering seems to be inverted.

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I agree that the base cloud color from above is strangely drab grey where it should be a pure white with bluish shadows around the edges. I don’t think inversion is the answer, as the clouds to clearly model directional light and shadows, and inverting them would completely break it.

This feels like a tweak to the cloud shaders is required when seen in full sunlight (they look great at low angle times of day, or from below) to boost out the grey and make the shadows look more accurate

I get that what I’m saying is that maybe inversion isn’t the issue as much of the greyness can be got rid of by adjusting screen settings.
Regarding clouds didn’t they undo a change they made in previous update SU5 because it broke something.

I completely agree, the clouds are well modeled but with more than mediocre colors whether in the middle of the day, at dusk, at sunset, … During the day it should be much whiter and during the sunrise and sunset it should be grayer because for the moment I find them much too orange

clouds at the moment are far from being realistic

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especally in VR. Largely a white overexposed wall with gray-green-purple shadow areas.

I would vote if I could for more realistic clouds that don’t look like volcanic ash. Also I would like to add that if you compare the white of an airplane paint with an illuminated face of a cloud, it is clearly visible that clouds are very grey, were they should be as white as possible on that part. Also cloud density is another thing that needs improvement or even an overhaul. I completely agree on all points made here in this thread and I think that cloud visual improvements should be of a very high priority tied with the broken weather system .

Cloud formations is another very important topic in my opinion as well. Right now clouds are looking awful sometimes with unrealistic and meaningless formations, where instead cloud types and formations should be based on meteorological descriptions and bibliography (as much as possible, because at the end of the day, it is just a virtual sim).

*** A very interesting presentation on cloud tech in the case of another videogame,( Horizon Zero Dawn ) contains some examples with their approach on volumetric clouds. And this was not a flight simulator, but a post apocalyptic open world videogame where almost 100% of the time, gameplay takes place on ground level. Red Dead Redemption 2 has some incredibly realistic looking volumetric clouds as well, even better than MSFS 2020 in some cases.

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Would you rather go back to billboard clouds?

I completely agree with what you said. They really need to get rid of these ash clouds. I made a thread on this a long time back
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/clouds-color-texture-needs-a-fix/271157?u=gridrisen

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@usamor - In general, I agree with you but its more complicated because lots of clouds (stratus and newly formed/forming cumulus) tend to be quite uniform in appearance and that appearance depends strongly on whats behind those clouds. They can be bright when backlit by the sun. They can appear grey against a blue sky or blue against the apparent white of a more well formed cumulus.

A more well formed cumulus will both reflect light and block light. When looking away from the sun it is as you say and you tend to see a brighter center of a cloud ‘puff’ with a darker surround but when seen against the sun its the direct opposite - a dark center with a silver lining. And of course this varies all dependent on your position and the clouds position and the suns position.

I hope that ray tracing might be useful to improve this situation but right now Id be happy if they just improve the colors. Start every cloud at a dim blue grey but let cumulus get brighter on their faces as they grow and darker slighter higher in hue blue in their shadows also as they grow.

just no more ashy yellow. its getting old.

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Voted! Also the guy in the video you posted on your thread, presented PRECISELY what’s wrong with the clouds! And it all makes sense, especially after I read the Horizon Zero Dawn cloud tech presentation I shared above. It seems like they actually used a superior technique than the one used in FS2020. I really wish this gets more attention since clouds is one of the main protagonists in a flight sim. There is so much room for improvement.

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yeah, whoever is interested in clouds graphics, please vote in that post!!!

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