Are we Even Here - No one is contacted are they? _ Long Read

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All – Many thousands of us have tried to post Zendesk reports. I have posted a few, because my “game faults” are also others game faults and those folks are also posting bugs. In the sake of clarity, I refrain from duplicating bug reports to keep Asobo and Microsoft from “chasing the same fox” as the other fellow has reported on.

I play the other sim too; you know the one with X and P in its name.

On Friday, I sent their Tech Support folks a request about a very popular plane on that platform and asked them to forward to head of company to see if they could buy the plane from the developer and add it into the next game release. The developer wants to sell all their planes, and this particular one is very popular with the military crowd and cargo hauler types.

I did expect an answer from their TS staff, as they are just “johnny on the spot” with helping their installed base of users. I did not expect “the big guy” to get the e-mail, and respond directly to me, but that is exactly what happened. He outlined exactly what it will take to move the plane into the next version of the game, and yes, again, some fixes may be required, hopefully they will be simple ones. But porting into the next version is as easy as creating a directory of the plane and then opening up that plane in the main menu, the new version will convert as much as possible so it will work. Unlike this one and all the FSX planes which worked, none of which appeared here from there.

Additionally, I had an issue with this subject plane and could not figure out what was happening, as the model had been in version 10, and ported to 11 with lots of aftermarket “fixes to get it to work”. He replied directly back telling me what he though was wrong, and how to fix it.

Now, that right there is customer service, not that he needed to take the time to respond, but that he did take the time to do so. When the next version is released, going to hock the car if necessary to buy it. I have been more and more impressed with the dedication and level of feedback and just information the owner has put on YouTube and his level of commitment to the players in the sim. That he, could take the time to respond to my query is outstanding. I really like this company and their attitude.

So, what I am asking, has anyone on this forum been contacted directly from person who is high up on the developer team or by someone wanting additional information concerning any bugs you might have submitted? To give credit when due, I did report one bug and withing couple hours got an answer on how to fix that problem, which worked. The permanent fix was in the next update that released.

I do know, for a fact, because I have corresponded directly with the developers on the DC Designs team about questions on the F-14. I have gotten answers in e-mail and comments directly in the thread about that plane. See this link here: DC Designs F-14A/B Tomcat Announcement & Discussion - Third Party Addon Discussion / Aircraft - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums – this is excellent thread even if you do not have subject plane. That thread on this forum has been going on since plane announcement and release. The developers routinely correspond in it, and provide all kinds of help to the people who have purchased that plane they sell. Again, an example of customer service.

The developers of MSFS-2020, and/or Microsoft, other than Q & A’s have never commented to my knowledge in the forum, concerning a bug, question or even constructive criticism concerning this sim. It’s like we just do not matter or exist, “so are we even here”? If I had not, purchased the F-14 above, I would take this thing off PC and leave. I really am not sure, based on bugs solved to date, and the state of the sim in general, that it’s really going to survive another year or two. I think just based on quality of product, which means, everything works, people will get tired of fighting it, and quit. I am seriously considering that, but again, love my F-14, as it was introduced into Navy one month before I was on active duty, so we go back a while. Like an old friend sorta.

Again, credit when due, before sim released, MS provided specifications needed to run this game. I opted to buy a gaming laptop, as close to the top of specifications then so as to mitigate lots of issues I think many experience problems because their machines are just not up to snuff. I do see and occasionally experience some issues, but, not to the same degree as many. I think a host of problems are because some machines just aint got the “umph” to run this game, even though it might be within published specs. BUT, some folks, have gotten very, very powerful machines with latest Processors and GPU’s and cannot even get it to download and install. So deep in the bowels of the code process is something which does not like something in hardware, what that thing is, is a random issue. I am not sure, Asobo/MS is/has/will take the time to figure out what that is, and fix it. I am sure the other guy, has issues, as that forum is full of questions/comments/bugs if you will. But, I see all the time, people who really “know how it works” assisting those people, but “are we even here?”

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I whined enough and got one of my issues resolved. But I’m not quite sure who read it or how it happened.

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Topic moved into #community:general-discussion-feedback

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Wow. TL:DR applies here. :slight_smile:

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It’s a pity you didn’t read it because there are some good and very valid points being made here.

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There are about 40,000 xplaners out there according to one article I read.
There are well over 2,000,000 MSFS users.

Say that 1% of the users have issues (just a figure-not based on fact) that’s 400 users in xplane to respond to.
In MSFS, that’s 20,000 to respond to. That can’t be done on a person to person basis.

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Pre-Note: may I missunderstood some sentences, its simple hard for none-native english speakers to read a post which is writen like a book about physics.

Now I see only these points you would mention:

exist “Q & A” not only for these reason ? They react to questions and give answers… there is no need that a single developer post in that public forum and would possible in same way spammed like some users our community manager spam.

Also if we see the dev-pipeline , it seems they are aware of us… but we should all know, that not a single person in the world can come with a wish and the expectation that this wish is implemented asap.

I allways wonder about such sentences… nobody force you to play this game. I think I can say that all users which wrote about " I go back to…" are still there :wink:
And a hint: in case you choose MSFS for flying only these military F-14, it might be a better choice to have a look to DCS , with a much more real model of the F-14 and also DCS is a compat simulation.

So… I feel me not alone… I have also some extended expectations to the sim, but I also know that developing takes time and that I’am not a single person in the world and all must do what I request.

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All - Yes, XP has less users, still, again, why do not the big guys, periodically take time to comment or answer here. It’s not about sheer numbers. I have felt, as a user of this sim, that all of us are considered second level here. Yes, Q & As are conducted by “management”, but again I do not watch them, mostly because I cannot understand what they are trying to explain. That partly is that English is not their first language, and I do not get “all the technical jargon” being talked about. Results speak louder than words. My hope is every single person, who gets this can download and play, that currently is not, nor has been the case since release, something to consider.

I think what all of us want, is a locked in as possible timeline (realize that also is not possible) time frame explaining when “this at least a reasonable goal, that existing bugs will be fixed”. For example, Live WX has been broken since release, ATC and the AP’s in almost every plane, broken since release. Third party developers release planes into sim, and those are not working just so, because underlying code in sim prevents them from working correctly. But the Code was either broken from release or changes to code happened either in WU or to make X-Box work here. I do not know which.
To comment “yes I know I can leave this sim”, read my comments again, and I did pay good money for it, so should I just throw that money down the drain.

As aside-Flew in F-14 at KMGE for 4 TO’s and LDG’s. Wonderful. almost crashed, banking too steep and not having enough airspeed, just rolled over and slammed throttles to stop. Once above 220KIAS recovered and landed fine. Still cannot get in my brain, the sequence of NAV buttons so I can do Cross Country Flight. Got notes but working on another project now. Update coming on Plane in future, sorta waiting on that.

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There is a written version of the Q&A here:
The vid is at the top, and the written transcript below it.

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Thank you. Will look at it this evening when time is better.

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Among the things that concern me, MSFS is not one of them. It’s software.

I’ve been messin’ about with software for about four decades; nothing comes close to the complexity of MSFS.

Enjoy life, and be Thankful For What You’ve Got.

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Seven, I will put it this way, if this was a car, every government on the planet would ban it, until it was fixed. If it was a home appliance, same thing. That it is a game, no one cares. Visually nothing come close, but I use it to fly in, and that part is what is not as good as it’s predecessor, FSX, nor does it work as well as it’s competitor, X-Plane.

I have a working plane, full screen in less than 60 seconds in XP. For MSFS it’s almost 5 minutes. Yes, underlying process is way different, suspect 12 will be longer load times. But, a version of XP is approved by FAA as simulator quality level, MSFS cannot even guarantee, everyone who buys it, can get it to install on their PC, several threads on main forum, “CANT INSTALL”, that has been going on since release, almost two years. Never see that in XP forum, although sure it happens, but, bet company jumps on it and figures out what is wrong too. Never, any Asobo/MS types in the thread of “cannot install” offering help or options, just us users, and for me 90% of time in the dark on what exactly issue.

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I dont think MS/Asobo respond to individuals on a case by case basis but they are in touch with Kai at AIG and Sérgio at Helicopter Flight Simulation. You definitely get a more personal level of service from smaller companies though, that is often the case.

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Getting a little hyperbolic here. When was the last time your flight simulator killed a family because something didn’t work right?

When was the last time it caught your kitchen on fire?

You raised a couple good points originally, but an earlier response pointed out the difference in the audience size for this sim vs xp. And I think that was a valid answer. And also it was pointed out that rather than responding direct to a single user as you’re fond of, they instead respond to the community as a whole via the Q&A and other similar channels.

Telling one single user about something is not more efficient or better than telling everyone. Granted, a private message or mail from the boss makes ONE person feel like a big wheel, it really isn’t a better way to communicate with a big community.

MSFS has a lot of areas that need attention and the progress sometimes feels glacial. But they are actively working on it, and for the most part its improving. It sure didn’t take long to get the perma-haze 3 mile visibility fixed. When the problem is real and impacting a lot of people, the fixes come on a reasonable timeframe.

Nobody should take this as me defending MS dev team here. There are many things that should have been fixed ages ago but are still polluting the corners 18 months into life. All I am saying really is that while personal communication feels nice, that is a one person impact. MS is a much bigger operation with a much bigger reach, and it’s just not reasonable to expect that from them.

And while XP is a boutique product, this one is more mass market, there will be differences. Laminar has never been big operation, and I don’t think they have any desire to be the size of even Asobo, much less MS. That allows them to deal with their smaller audience in completely different ways and it doesn’t mean anything is right or wrong with either company.

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Wow, if you were in the Nav back when the big cat first made her appearance, you have been around shipmate. My hat is off to you and I enjoyed reading your post. Cheers.

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This is just a difference of scale. Smaller companies can do more personalized outreach. As you get larger, you cannot.

Also, publicly traded companies have rules around information disclosure.

The CEO of a small company like Laminar can talk directly to you and this won’t be news beyond specialized flight sim sites (maybe not even there). If Satya Nadella wrote you an email, CNN/Fox/BBC would cover it - and their stock price might move, and stockholders could lose/gain billions.

Microsoft is a trillion-dollar company and the CEO mentioned MSFS in the last financial briefing - this is a major property for Microsoft. You simply will never see stuff being said off-the-cuff, as it were. People get fired for stuff like that.

Microsoft is communicating with us in ways that they can - can this be better? Sure, but it’s unrealistic to expect Jorg to pop into the forums or write you an email.

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I think over all he’s saying their communication with the community needs to be better. If you need more people to respond hire them. We’ve had an update that put thousands on 1.23.13 and have had no communication on what the update was. Further more that update has made the sim unplayable and it’s been nearly a week and the devs and such have been dead silent. There’s no patch notes. The file itself says it’s version 1.23.13 and the sim itself in its patch notes is saying 1.23.12. Over all the level of communication isn’t just low it’s grossly unacceptable. I enjoy the sim but there’s many things that MS/Asobo are practicing right now community wise that is UNACCEPTABLE for a company of their size.

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Sim version 1.23.12 is Sim update VIII.
There was a beta session, and a thread in the News & Announcements Section.
I don’t think they could have communicated that much better!

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Please re-read what people are writing.

The Xbox received an update on March 9, seven days ago, that updated our sim to 1.23.13.0 — again that is 1.23.13.0 not 1.23.12.0.

The in-game release notes are an amalgamation of 1.23.12.0 Beta and 1.23.9.0.

There has been no official acknowledgment or documentation of this update even though we have been asking for a week.

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You’re absolutely correct, I suspect I focused on the one number.
My sincere apologies.

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