100% agreed. I was very excited for the 707, but if it has issues that prevented it from being released on the previously scheduled day, I say to AH, by all means, take your time and make sure you get it right. I don’t have particularly high hopes for an AH product myself, but the 707 is so iconic that it needs the best possible representation, and my own opinion is, as long as it looks good, performs in a reasonably realistic fashion, and all its major systems work as intended, I’m sure the vast majority of customers will be happy.
As a side note, this is why a lot of projects, such as basically all freeware I’ve seen, don’t ever have set release dates. Freeware projects especially are made up of basically all volunteer developers, sure, but for any project, a lack of a set release date will take pressure off the developers and enable them to make the best possible product, and therefore make most people as happy as possible when the project does release. I personally think all software development projects should work this way, whether they be freeware, payware, whatever. Take all the time you need to squash the bugs and perform QA tests and most everyone will be happy.
Well, seems all the negative fed back has had some effect.
The release of the Boeing 707 has been delayed with no new release date.
From the MSFS TEAM:
Hi simmers,
We know that many of you were looking forward to the release of the Boeing 707-320C today. We apologize for not getting the word out sooner, but as we were reviewing the release candidate, it was clear that the aircraft still needed some more work in a few areas and we decided to give the team at Aeroplane Heaven more time to ensure a high quality release. We don’t have a specific new date yet, but the plan is to release the 707 alongside Sim Update 16. Ultimately, what’s most important is to deliver a fantastic aircraft and we will keep pushing to make that happen in the coming weeks.
I just hope this delay will actually amount to something. If they need someone to provide them with documentation and scrutiny on it to make sure it’s as accurate as possible, I know a few people they can ring for testers, myself included. And the 707 itself can be quite the quirky jet from what I’ve seen.
I’m extremely glad about this delay because maybe we can expect a little more as the JT4 engines which are common on 90% of the B707, maybe a cargo version and my greatest wish is the real sound set. I just hope they will be able to record on a real B707 somewhere in the world. And maybe a little more functionalities in the cockpit.
I disagree that 90% of all 707s were powered by JT4 engines. I believe that most of them had JT3D (low bypass) fan engines Some early versions had JT3C and / or JT4s. A few had Rolls-Royce Conway engines as well.
The CFM 56 was tried, but was only successful on the military versions of the 707 (AWACS). To my knowledge there was only one CFM powered civilian 707.
I, too, am looking forward to any 707 on any platform (there is a very good 720 available as freeware on XPlane, along with a 707 coming from Nimbus also for that platform), largely because I flew them for 5 years in the beginning of my career. But do not be deceived - the 707 was hardly a “pilot’s airplane”, at least by modern standards. It had no hydraulic boost for the ailerons or elevators (only for the rudder), and was thus quite heavy in feel and ponderous in response. It is a real tribute to the abilities of test pilot Tex Johnston that he was able to roll it at Seattle back during its’ development. It flew like a truck, and was quite a contrast to the later 727, which literally flew like a Maserati. Of course, back in 1958 when the 707 came out, all airliners flew like trucks, with the sole exception of the Lockheed Electra, so the 707 was not considered all that bad by the original crop of pilots who flew it. And any need for a few Charles Atlas strength building courses was easily accommodated by the near 100% increase in pay that the weight-speed formulas cranked out! Pilots loved it because it paid like a slot machine, and turned a 15 hour day into an 8 hour day. Let’s hope that AH does a nice job with this one!
We probably will never see a dash 80, because it was a totally different airplane - smaller in every dimension (even smaller than the KC-135, which is also based upon it). It would require a completely new development, not merely a shortening of the fuselage of a 707.
In the 707 it was a very active position, since all of the systems required monitoring and operation. In those days, which in my case was 1977, just about all airline pilots started out as flight engineers (second officers as they were called most places). This was because all jobs at any unionized airline (and back then they were all unionized) were bid according to seniority - thus, the most junior (recently hired) pilots sat sideways and worked the FE panel. In due time (and this varied depending upon airline and the pace of flight operations with the economy) FO positions would open up and the senior FE’s would upgrade to a window seat. In the course of technological development the FE position did indeed become obsolete, as you say. Most smaller airliners, such as the DC-9 and 737 (at some airlines) had no FE. Starting with the 757/767, larger airplanes also lost the position as automation made the workload tolerable for only two crew members, at least most of the time. The last airliner that was certified with a flight engineer was the L-1011. Even later versions of the 747 had no FE aboard. As for what the job was like, I refer you to an article that I wrote a while back for another flight sim site: Three Holer Part 1: Wrench - Featured - FlightSim.Com
The CMs are getting a lot of undeserved flak in this thread and it’s not right. Realistically, this was not in their control. They also likely have directions from MS on what they can and cannot say about certain things.
Let’s also make another thing clear - Asobo has nothing to do with this either. They are a development house MS hired for MSFS. All of these LL/FF things are a MICROSOFT product, not an Asobo product. So leave Seb’s company out of this.
The fault on communication lies with Microsoft and Jorg. That’s the bottom line. Now… here’s another thing. They apologized for the way this was handled and that’s all anyone can ask for. We all missed some deadlines at some point for one reason or another. We all dropped the ball on communication at some point or another.
Here’s the good news: I am GLAD this happened. AH is well-known by now for putting out shoddy work. The fact that this must have been so bad that MS put it out of its misery until it’s better is a good sign. Maybe, just MAYBE they actually heard the outcry from the community about the standards of FF/LL thingies AH has been half-baking and are trying to prevent another PR nightmare. That means whatever we eventually get at the point of release is gonna be better than it is now. That’s a good thing. How much better? No idea, I am just hoping it is in the “non-disaster” realm.
All of this is a supposition and nothing more than what I think about it, but perhaps this will cause MS to re-evaluate whether they want to put trust into AH going forward as far as commissioning them to do first-party aircraft.
There is plenty of stuff to fly for now. I hope the 707 we eventually get is DECENT, I am not hoping for good at this point - based on the reviews of this newest AH thing, I have no evidence of them putting out anything good, so unless/until that happens, DECENT is all I can hope for.
During their Expo2024 talk, MS made it clear that AH is one of “the best in the community” and they are a partner for MSFS 2024 (check the top-left logo on the slide).
