BUG: Heavy landing / Crash detected in mid-air

[Baracus250]

I am totally lost with this problem. Anyone got any thoughts or experienced the same?

ISSUE:

• Flying along normally, all of a sudden plane gets knocked up as if hitting something.
• Sometimes a single time, sometimes repeatedly (like 7 times in 3 seconds).
• It can go through a phase of doing this, then normal again for a long time.
• Only noticed it in GROUP flights. But it’s not necessarily when I am NEAR (very near) other aircraft.
• Even so, when I am near others, there is 99.9% no problem so I don’t know why or when it happens. Not noticed a pattern!

SYMPTOMS:

• Screech sound from tyres plays (even if gear is up on retractable gear aircraft).
• Whole plane shakes like a hard landing.
• In aircraft that model prop damage, it breaks the prop (ground strike).
• Landing detected (can be -2000 f/ps) as reported by Sky4Sim tablet.

NOTES:

• It seems to MAINLY happen when using TAA (in VR now, but happened in 2D also before).
• DLSS is less prone but has happened a couple of times (in VR though).
• My temps are fine (max 65c on CPU and 58c on GPU) when this happens.
• May be a memory related thing as it usually happens LATER in a flight, not at the start (but actually sometimes at start too, in group flight, with lots of other aircraft around).
• My GPU usage is not maxed out when it happens (can be 85% usage, 65% VRAM) and I am getting really solid performance even in heavy PG areas so I don’t think that my system can’t handle it.
• Not near ground, so it’s not a rogue collision box.
• I am using FS Realistic, so I get the head bob, but I think this is REACTION rather than aa possible cause.
• Has happened in multiple Aircraft (Comanche, Blackwing 635RG, Globe Swift) and Helicopters (most of them at some point) so it is system problem, not aircraft specific.
• In the Comanche, it breaks my prop instantly.
• Seems to be more likely when I am doing extreme moves (loops, but not necessarily DURING the loop… it would be as I gain speed but coming out of it so facing the “same way”), but it does happen in level straight flight, and in non-heavy scenery or situations. But I can also try and induce it by doing loops and it’s fine. It just happens rarely.
• Whole session is fine then all of a sudden it does it for no obvious reason. Scenery and demand is no heavier (or even LESS heavy) than when it was smooth and having no issues.

MY THOUGHTS:

• It seems to be a CPU issue, somehow it is skipping a LOT of frames, and when it “catches up”, the physics the aircraft encounters are out of bounds so it sees it as a high-G move / crash, which in turn triggers the gear tyre screech sound (even if gear are not down lol)
• But why would it do this, and what can I do about it? I mean MSFS is ALWAYS Main Thread limited for me, so why does it sometimes react this way?

[PHSepp796]

Hi there @Baracus250

I have no idea of whats going on and i doubt if i could provide any help.
But by brainstorming someone with more or other knowledge might find some useful clues in this matter.

What does you task manager show, and what are your window log say?
About your thoughts and you mention high G move/ crash, how are G force settings in assistance set
And for the tyre screetch sound how do you have the sound setting of the sim.
and for as far im aware if screetch sound are audible there must be some kind of touchdown

Silly question from me to you, was there some sonic boom in the vicinity of your airplane or are there some effects that could imply this behavior (i do not know how far devs are and if they can make possible).

Regards

Sebastiaan

[Baracus250]

Thanks for the thoughts

@PHSepp796

taskmanager

Not sure, I was in VR when it happened last night (a lot, in the Globe Swift so not a heavy CPU demanding aircraft!) so did not see task manager. I will try and catch it next time.

@PHSepp796

windowlog

You mean Event Viewer?

@PHSepp796

G force settings in assistance / sound setting of the sim

My settings here

…but even in level flight it happens. Not that I am doing High-G move. But the END RESULT after the ‘crash’ is like the plane reacts as if it was sudden force on it (like in 1 frame it has crazy forces which triggers all the things: jerk, screech sound, Sky4Sim and broken prop).

@PHSepp796

as far im aware if screetch sound are audible there must be some kind of touchdown

That is the strangest thing. It IS seen as touchdown as I can see in Sky34Sim. It gives me the message that I landed near ICAO and the landing rate. Then message that I took off and reports this for each of the ‘hits’ I get (multiple per second sometimes).

@PHSepp796

sonic boom in the vicinity of your airplane

No nothing like that. For sure it is something on my PC struggling for some reason in these moments. But I just don’t know why it reacts like this rather than just skipping frames / stuttering / freezing / hitching (you know, the usual MSFS performance problems )

MAYBE it is FS Realistic adding the sounds, and the jerk… so maybe I need to delete that app now. But still, why it sometimes does this I don’t know. Could be why I see it and others don’t if they don’t use FS Realistic.

[PHSepp796]

@Baracus250

You mean Event Viewer?

Yes (sorry did not know how to call it it is my stupendis dutch accent i quess)

About my setting
Lose the jet suit and buy a new one (meaning turn it of and back on)

and engine stress damage is enabled (maybe here is a bug due timers)
So maybe an idea is to turn it off and fly the same flight again and record a video from external recorder (so this wont interfere with your pc performance)

As for Sky34Sim i do not use, but if offcourse you can disable and try to fly again and see if it is happening again

[SmotheryVase665]

@Baracus250

Only noticed it in GROUP flights. But it’s not necessarily when I am NEAR (very near) other aircraft.
…
…when I am near others, there is 99.9% no problem so I don’t know why or when it happens. Not noticed a pattern!..

Hi Baracus250!
Wild (and I mean really, really wild) speculation: You are hitting an invisible Multiplayer aircraft, something like this (though this is an AI one):

Neither your aircraft nor the others’ have matching liveries. The livery matching algorithm can’t find a livery, so you are both invisible to each other.
The chances of both of you hitting each other, are, admittedly, extremely & absurdly rare - but you say that is so. Would also explain why there is no pattern - this is purely a random event.

This theory does not explain all your symptoms - e.g. the tire screeches & landing detected - but are these symptoms only recognized by a 3rd-party app, or does MSFS record a landing too in the logbook? If the former, it may be that the Sky4Sim coding determines a “landing” differently than MSFS.

I also thought that you could not crash into AI or multiplayer aircraft - you just go through them, but maybe you have found an instance when this is not the case.

Idea: Try flying in Group flight for a month with Crash Detection turned off (if it is on) & see what happens.

[Baracus250]

LOL no it’s not that. You can’t crash into other planes. And crash detection IS off anyway.

As I say, when it starts doing it, I can MAKE it do it more by doing loops. It’s exclusive to me

Going to try without FS Realistic for a few weeks.

[bam12208834]

My bet is that it’s also caused by FSRealistic. I have had so many weird issues using that program. I have disabled it and I don’t have anymore problems.

[Baracus250]

@PHSepp796

what are your windowlog say?

Not sure what to look for - there are thousands of entries. I could try and find approx time but… not sure still

@PHSepp796

What does you taskmanager show

Weirdly CPU is suddenly using the WRONG ccd for my 7950X3D.

All times I have seen it before (and earlier today) it was like this:

[Baracus250]

@bam12208834

My bet is that it’s also caused by FSRealistic.

Nope it’s not FS Realistic. Had it a few times now, alone, in light countryside, no other players around, no photogrammetry. In Bell 206.

My friend also experienced the same today 3 times in Comanche (he does not have FS Realistic) and it broke his prop. He was low though (<150ft) but don’t think that is relevant.

[PHSepp796]

You have got a lot going on there,
Is it with all your airplanes (got to keep you busy )

I also notice you use haptic, for basshakers dont know if u use it and for how long
This has its own soundfiles and maybe interupts settings i guess, did you use that during your flight
For i see it is active, if so and if it is possible to reproduce try it to shutdown
And it is to narrow down
Also apps can be fully compatible with msfs but may not be compatible with other apps or hardware due conflicting use of software thats my quess
Also you can check your systeminformation and check under hardware irq to see if you have got it all right
And there is so much more to see in system information

[WingWarper1]

@Baracus250

Weirdly CPU is suddenly using the WRONG ccd for my 7950X3D.

Not sure if this will help any and you may already know this but you can get the sim to jump over to the non-vcache CCD by clicking on another app on a second screen. When you click back on the sim it will jump back over to the correct vcache CCDs. This happens every time on my 7900x3d.

You sure have an interesting and complex issue, however I’m confident you’ll solve it!

[Baracus250]

@WingWarper1

When you click back on the sim it will jump back over to the correct vcache CCDs. This happens every time on my 7900x3d.

Yep usually and every other time I’ve looked at the graphs, it does, but this time it didn’t. Really odd!

Anyway more extensive tweaking today (for this issue AND generally the ongoing “Battle Of Getting VR To Work Better” or BOGVRTWB as I call it = BOVER for short ) and I seem to have got it more stable generally.

The “hitting in air” bug is so sporadic that it is hard to conclusively test, so I will just have to see how it goes over the next weeks.

I changed back to Game Mode on (so now THAT is controlling which core set is being used - ok so far) and made some other adjustments that have resulted in much smoother performance so far, so maybe that will kill this bug.

Problem with this game is it’s so fragile, you have one epic smooth flight, and then the next session or just later in a longer flight it can go south again. We will see! It’s probably the best I have had it now so I have some hope.

@PHSepp796

You have got a lot going on there,

Yeah, isn’t Windows so efficient? lol

This PC is ONLY used for Flight Sim and some video editing / graphic design. That’s what the Adobe stuff is. The rest is just whatever is there for the supporting apps for my sim, so I can’t really reduce it too much.

As I wrote above, I am using Game Mode on now, so that says it minimised background tasks when gaming - maybe that is a good thing if Windows can be trusted with all that power!

@PHSepp796

Is it with all your airplanes

That I cannot really answer! It’s happened with enough that I am sure it’s not aircraft specific, or anything to do with how demanding the aircraft is (e.g. lots of glass screens, heavy model 3D graphics etc. It happens with simpler and well optimised planes too. Helicopters ARE more prone though, so I guess the CFD comes into it… hence the feeling that it’s general system overload at some times… bu even in light countryside is weird!

@PHSepp796

I also notice you use haptic, for basshakers dont know if u use it and for how long

Yeah it’s for my HF8 Haptic Seat. Using SimHaptic app for that now, plugged into my on-board sound card.

@PHSepp796

And there is so much more to see in system information

…but it means nothing to me hahha…

Appreciate all your help here guys. I think I am sure it is just a overhead thing, not really a “conflict”. I will run like this for a while in different scenarios and keep praying.

[DeltaFlyer44]

I haven’t flown it in a while, but I would frequently get this type of behaviour when flying the Vertigo aircraft, often around Innsbruck or other mountain areas.

I would be flying along, safely far enough away from anything, and then bam it’s like I’m bouncing off an invisible brick wall in mid-air.

It drove me nuts. I couldn’t figure out what was happening and ended up switching to other aircraft and almost forgot about it.

Having said that, I also rarely fly the exact same flight path so I’m not convinced it was necessarily that specific plane that had an issue. I also never went into developer mode to try and see if there may have been some type of random polygon object floating in the sky that wasn’t meant to be there (I.e., I just got lucky and hit it).

Either way, not sure if my issue is same as yours but will be keen to hear if you get to the bottom of what might be causing the problem you describe.

Cheers

[StevoSim]

So a strange thing seems to be happening - I’m not exactly sure how to explain it properly. I’ll be flying along and suddenly the sim makes an awful noise like I’ve hit something. OnAir company then announces “landing detected” followed immediately by “airborne again”. It’s as if the sim has a piece of terrain that’s at my height or something weird like that. Problem is of course the autopilot disconnects and (in the case of the FSR500) the aircraft depressurizes because for the briefest of moments it thinks I’ve landed. This can happen several times in flight. Thing is, I’m typically 1000’s of ft agl!

[Baracus250]

@StevoSim

So a strange thing seems to be happening - I’m not exactly sure how to explain it properly

Your topic was merged with mine. I think it sounds like we are talking about the same thing.
Very strange! I have had it a few times in the last few months, but not so often, so it is hard to diagnose.

I don’t even know where to begin. I think mine MAINLY happens in group flights. That is about the only thing I can think is somewhat constant. BUT it also happened once this weekend, I was alone, in light scenery, no FS Realistic, and not really stressing my system (I think) but I was low and turning (quickly) in the Bell 206 (Fly Inside) and as I straightened out and picked up some speed (nose down, about 30ft off the ground) the nose caught on something invisible (there is NOTHING at this airfield, I use it all the time), I got the “skid hit” sound and it tipped over forwards before I could recover it.

Can you remember what aircraft you have had it happen in?
But I think it’s not anything to do with aircraft - although MAYBE there is something going on behind the scenes that makes them heavy on calculations compared to others.

Do you think it’s something related to hitching when loading in scenery or objects?
That is my best guess. But why sometimes it reacts like this I don’t know. I mean stutters and freezes are COMMON in MSFS, and usually it just skips and carrier on as normal, or if you get a longer freeze (multiple seconds, where you think it is going to CTD then just carries on) it does not STACK UP physics forces and BANG them into you when it runs again.

Something really weird going on. Surely something related to system stability / headroom but it happens at the WEIRDEST times when you think system is NOT really stressed.

[CommandVictor98]

I’ve also had it occasionally, last time was 3 times in about a minute flying a pattern round the air show version of Duxford (from Flightsim.to) at 1000 ft agl in the A2A Comanche. On a previous occasion in the same aircraft the engine stopped and prop broke. Not running FSRealistic.

[StevoSim]

Are you guys using OnAir when this happens? I’ve noticed this happens to me often, but only when I use OnAir. Here you can see at 15:23:58 the “Landing” happens. I’ve discovered that if I fly the exact same flight (same aircraft too) without OnAir this does not happen. Furthermore lately I’ve switched to FSEconomy and no problems. I’m trying to establish whether it is related to OnAir.

[Baracus250]

@StevoSim

Are you guys using OnAir when this happens?

I’ve never used OnAir, nope.

But… I have not had the problem for a good few weeks now.

Problem is I cannot specifically say what helped. It’s one of these two and I put my money on number 1:

1. Using TAA now, but with 80% and then upscaling in the headset (Q3) but not TOO much. Basically reducing stress on the whole CPU ↔ GPU bandwidth.

2. Swapped to the No Collider version of the Mamu Powerlines mod.

I am fairly sure this problem occurred even without Powerlines at all, so it is not that.

But I have had it with fiddling and testing… just want to fly. So now that it’s working really rather well (since SU15 too) I am not touching anything. Well, I am still adding new content to play with lol, but all good so far.

[StevoSim]

Hmmm interesting. I was also wondering if it is a VR thing as I reached out to OnAir and they said they’ve had no other reports of this, so it’s a pretty niche thing. I also use TAA with my Varjo Aero, but 100% as 80% looks terrible. Perhaps it is a combination of things that causes it, which is why when I remove OnAir from the equation the problem goes away. Other things I tend to run at the same time are vPilot and LittleNavMap.

Ah well, I’ll just stick with FSEconomy for now…

[Baracus250]

What the flip… this has just returned with vengeance!

Was having a pleasant flight, then all of a sudden, a MASSIVE hit and landing detected in the air every 3 seconds or less, repeatedly. Worst I have ever seen, in a not complex plane and with my settings now dialled in so it’s been pretty much fine everywhere recently!

Only seems to happen in VR though. Here is a video:

Flight Simulator - mid-air hard landing bug in VR

I am at a loss!!! That totally ruined a lovely peaceful and beautiful flight in the Italian Lakes