Which is what the templates in the bug section do. They prompt you for specific information. Just like a Zendesk ticket, where they ask(prompt) for specific information.
…what…???
Did you actually read what I wrote?
…this is how polls work…
It is not the format of the bug template but they still ask you specific questions.
I really had a hard time making sense of the last part of your post but I think what I am reading is that 1000’s of responses to specific questions, designed to provide baseline information on each user should be followed by an email to each participant to gain further insight, rather than compiling the data gathered and analyzing it to find commonalities, allowing the duplication of the conditions that result in the given failure, therefore finding the cause which allows for a definitive fix.
I suppose what works for some doesn’t work for everybody. I understand your reasonable viewpoint but a lot of other posters feel differently. As you say, maybe it’s best to ignore posts which annoy. Difficult I know and not something which to be honest I have yet mastered myself.
In regards to submitting a support ticket, do we think they’re asking for all the pertinent information they would need to troubleshoot? They ask about OS, peripherals and controllers, third party software, etc. No where does it ask about your hardware or to provide any diagnostic files.
Wouldn’t it be beneficial to provide information like CPU, GPU, RAM, driver versions, etc? Maybe even some basic info on what settings are enabled?
Sometimes this extra information is useful, but mostly the sim runs the same across different CPU and GPU configurations. Reproducibility is by far the most valuable piece of information. If you can reliably reproduce the issue and list the exact steps in the ticket, you will be loved by the dev working the issue.
Part of the argument has been that there’s so many different hardware configs out there and there’s no way they could possibly test on all of them. Well, maybe if they were actively gathering that info, they could pinpoint some commonality between users having the issue.
Different hardware configs do contribute to some issues, but not as many as we would like to think. Third party software and mods probably have a much bigger impact.
All of your comments are based on the same level of evidence and “statistical data” that I have access to… meaning we’re both basing our opinions on first had experience, what we are seeing and what others say. So stop asking me about “evidence”, it makes no sense as an argument.
I understand you are having problems, that sucks and I sympathize with you. But I’m not seeing those issues and I’m going to side with the developers when I see people outright trashing them because they are angry. I don’t think you ever outright trashed them either so I don’t even really know why you’re getting so upset.
I think people should voice their issue’s in a constructive, detailed manor and submit tickets and even discuss with the community. But when people start calling MSFS trash, saying the developers don’t care, don’t communicate and are doing a terrible job, that’s where I draw the line.
Hi willisxdc
I have read many of your posts and thank you for your contribution to the community.
Couple of questions though. What have your posts in this thread to do with the topic title. Did the topic change without me noticing? If so, sorry for asking.
If not, are you a moderator or forum admin member? Do you have a customer support role for Asobo/MS? I’m just asking because I may want to point out to the MS person who hired you that IMO you lack training in interfacing with disappointed customer who have paid for a product and have a justified grievance. I can give you tips per DM on how not to antagonise customers if you wish.
Perhaps you could consider playing with the game instead. You might find the stuttering I found if you do that. Please treat me as a silly older woman who has no knowledge, is not self-opinionated and can give you a flight plan to discover stuttering.
Apparently bugs can only be found by us beta tester customers because MS forgot to tell Asobo that its WINDOW users have many hardware combinations.
The MSFS team has specifically asked for hardware configurations and driver information. They have asked because, although the have all the steps people have taken to see consistent reproductions of the the errors on THEIR system, the MSFS team has not been able to reproduce those same errors on their test beds.
A copy of the DXDiag report is wonderful for tracing across platforms. Two systems running identical hardware with the same drivers may have something as ambiguous as different runtime DLL versions installed. That is often the reason why one user has the problem and another doesn’t.
The Windows environment is anything but sterile. Even a DLL left over from a long ago uninstalled piece of unrelated software could have a conflict with current MSFS/Windows runtimes. How can you find that anomaly without system details that go beyond the basic steps to a CTD?
I can make that statement because the MSFS issues are no where near Cyberpunk levels, it’s not widely reported, If you look over the threads many people are playing and enjoying the game asking questions about how things work and talking about what they did, posting screenshots and participating in constructive discussions. These threads simply would not exist if the game was a stuttering unplayable mess as described by a few people in this particular thread.
I can also make that statement because of my first hand experience having none of these stuttering/low frame issues and really only noticing performance improvements with most updates.
If I see people bashing the devs and saying terrible things about a product I know works well on my end, I believe the responsible thing to do is post my experience so any 3rd party looking at that stuff can see there’s two sides to the story.
am I wrong? If you were a neutral party looking for information about the game wouldn’t you want to know there’s also people having good experiences on the platform? In general people are far more likely to post negative comments then good ones as well because they are just enjoying it.
I think there’s no issue at all with my statement.
If they have, I have yet to see it. If they are actively seeking this, they might consider including that in the support ticket form for performance issues.
This is what I was getting at and honestly I’m surprised this isn’t specifically asked for. At least when reporting performance issues.
If you post a video or a picture of you coming into LAX in any one of the airliners, with the developer tool FPS option on (which is useful as it shows stutters/spikes as red bars), I’ll rest my case. I guarantee you that you’ll see the stutters people are referring to. Again, LAX (or really any large photogrammetric city), and an airliner like the A320 or 787
Thanks for following along with my extended explanations. Maybe through over-explanation to some of the members here, my message has been diluted.
This thread and others focused on the loss of performance since the last update, show that a significant number of users have encountered the same or similar problems. By extensively weeding through the posts I have found that there are a lot more general posts with no usable information provided to the developer to assist in finding a solution than there are posts, not only containing data but also accompanied by a vote to elevate the issue.
I believe there are far more users that could contribute to the solution than the current vote count indicates. The current votes only account for 0.1% of our 80,000 members. This MUST be inaccurate if the volume of general posts are to be believed. (I do believe, by the way) This string of posts stem from the belief from many here that simply waving your arms and shouting into the darkness will get these problems solved.
I am repeatedly told that it is not the users responsibility to provide troubleshooting for the developer. I would like to move people to actually VOTE for the bugs that ‘bug’ them. Offer useful information through the ZENDESK system, no matter how many have done so before. Maybe their report will provide the key. If we truly want this stuff fixed then when the developer is ASKING for as much data as possible, I think it is counterproductive to respond that, “It’s NOT My system that’s broken, it’s YOUR CODE. FIX IT!”
Just search for the bugs in the forum and VOTE. Submit a meaningful ZENDESK ticket. Then they can come back here and rant if it makes them feel better. I just want them to actively participate in the cure.
I would like to see that as well, please. So far I have only seen 'thousands of hardware configurations) being repeatedly put forward as an excuse by users who say they do not see an issue. I would prefer an official statement to that effect from Asobo/MS because, for example, I am amazed that there might be the possibility that someone at MS forgot to tell Asobo that the claimed 2 million+ PC users chosen to pay for the development costs and act as beta testers have PC’s with 'thousands of hardware. configurations. Honestly, I really can’t image that some ‘necessary customer satisfaction measure’ would not be implemented especially because there seems to be so many posters here who claim to be coders and demand we accept that 'bugs must be expected and accepted by paying customer without complaint.
Happy flying to those who can.
A) are you only saying there’s issues with potentially one of the most CPU and graphically intensive area’s in the entire sim? What are we even going on about then? We would need a plethora of information to dissect that clip… Hardware/Graphics Settings/Background programs/ even the filming of the clip itself would affect that unless you had an independent capture card which I do not have… Again you aren’t making tons of sense…
and
B) You can post the same thing first with a detailed list of your PC specs, task manager programs, component utilization, hardware Temperatures and graphical settings. Then maybe I’ll go through all the trouble to oblige you… I really have no interest in doing all that though…
Thank you, that’s what I meant.
May I politely and in a friendly way point out the forum has a mute function for those who do not like other forum members using the forum.
One of the first items in the template…
They also mentioned it in the last Q&A (or maybe the one before). Specifically they commented that they weren’t getting the system data needed to reproduce the circumstances of certain bugs.
I agree, they should add a request for a DXDiag report. It is quite comprehensive and because it is a standardized report it would be easy to DB it and see correlations.
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