Can we talk about photogrammetry quality?

You can disable PG for now (under Data). I do it sometimes if I’m flying below 3000 AGL…the “melty” look is pretty awful.

Honestly I’m pretty satisfied with it currently. I came from thousands of hours in XPlane with many gbs of scenery and mesh, and this looks magnificent, and surely will only improve in time.

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Then don’t moan about the scenery not looking 100% when skimming rooftops; it’s not made for that.

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please show me where im moaning over rather factually explaining why the sim looks the way it looks?

i could honestly care less about looking in windows, sure, i have said it would be awesome to do and referenced the movie “Blue Thunder” mostly in threads about helicopters, but, not once have i actually complained about it.

find someone else to twist words and comments please

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Hello, I’ve noticed this issue as soon as I went for my first flight at KVNY and KWHP airports. It ruined the whole sim experience for me. weird looking objects, terrain texture not loading properly, mesh not aligned with the surrounding, tress in the water and on the highways in LA area. The draw distance is poor. I have i7 4 core 4.6ghz, 24GB 2400 RAM, 1080TI, SSD medium to high settings. The sim needs lots of work…

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at ground level, photoggrametry will be not good, it’s not hand made scenery, (unless you turn photoggrametry to off) but on higher altitude you can do this for now, waiting MSFS to increase this. PSA: LOD Slider Can Be Increased Past 200 - Dramatically Improves Photogrammatery

There is already thread for improvement with vote here Ground texture - Low resolution - Internet incorrect Bandwidth

well, i started sims from eagle strike ega, and for sure don’t get that time with cga graphic, as hadn’t pc, first sim was may be not f-15 but f-117 ega too, kesmai air warrior i guess some later, and flanker 1.0 1.5 jane’s hornet and apache and ww2fighters and flight simulator 95, from microsoft it was first i guess, so sure, i relatively kid :slight_smile: but only relatively in this context, and in collective context i think stay absolutely :slight_smile: i forgot literally callsigns of other games, but was many of them like comache comache 2 comache 3, in any way, i think that’s time jane’s was the best company, would be if some jane’s’s guys stay work in simulators industry, may be in some addons fsx/p3d company :slight_smile: i forgot so many simulators, enemy engaged, you will not believe, i didn’t flew fs9 ever, that’s time i flew il-2 sturmovic online from 2002 i guess, or about that, so fsx was first after ms98,… ah no, i flew ms2000 too lol, and when i upgrade pentium3/voodoo(dont remember model) to q8200/gt9500 i start fsx some, but crysis and far cry 2 was so cool, so why i remember, and i just yesterday replayed crysis remastered, so 2008 is not when i start lol

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I believe this is why they limited the zoom level from the cockpit. They knew the PG couldn’t be so sharp in the distance - it would cripple our PC’s.

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According to Microsoft, the fix is to clean the cache in the simulator.

By the way, they did mention to clean the cache after every update and restart the game.

Tried this already, many times
Didn’t help

Great idea, but your description shows your lack of understanding how photogrammetry works in sim. The entire photogrammetric layer is an additional “mesh” that is overlayed on top of the existing DEM. There is no “data” that the sim uses to differentiate between bush, rock, tree, mountain, or building. It is all one altitude mesh that they “drape” the photography data over like you would drape a sheet over pillows on your bed.

As a result, you can’t go in after the fact and simply flatten and disable select portions of the mesh. That is one of the reasons that night lighting on photogrammetric skyscrapers is so awful. The AI can basically pick out skyscrapers due to the abrupt change of elevation data and “position” and apply a really poor night lighting generic texture to the side, but it’s really rather poor. Go down the Strip in Las Vegas at night if you want an example…

And since “autogen” resides on your own machine, then the “AI” you propose would have to be running on your client machine to do this, which is a lot to ask of a CPU that is already pretty much maxing out. So the performance hit you propose is tremendous, if it could be done.

And even if it could be done, the performance hit on rendering is also a concern. A lot of freeware developers have injected Google Maps data into MSFS using blender and even included different LOD’s and that area can cripple frame rates. Especially when used over wide areas. Yeah, replacing Devils Tower or Mount Rushmore might not cause a problem, but the larger the area, the larger the hit.

As other’s have mentioned. Google Maps has 10x the photogrammetric data as Bing. So Microsoft should just increase their Bing Maps photogrammetric data gratis? Maybe if we had a subscription model that would help pay for the increased storage space, and the cost of obtaining the increased photogrammetric data? But we know how well that would go over as well.

As far as Google making a flight simulator? They already put a basic one in Google Earth. And that’s it. So that should tell you how much interest they have of expanding that idea.

My suggestion? Instead of having what you want, try wanting what you have. We have an incredible sim as it is. Even with Photogrammetry turned off, buildings and tree’s are generally where they are supposed to be. If you want a cohesive world, you can turn off photogrammetry and all areas in sim will look the same. If you want to “sightsee” then turn it on, and deal with the melty buildings and rocks that are a part of this fledgling technology.

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I agree. This is a very real issue and needs to be discussed. It’s unfortunate we can’t have a discussion with Asobo about it more directly though.

In any case, they set a baseline of what to expect. At launch, we didn’t have these photogrammetry issues. Like at all. Objects were fully loaded and looked good by the time they were close enough to see. The world looked amazing. I can remember being just amazed by how real everything looked and from how far away we were able to see photogrammetry detail.

Now we fly over areas that look like post-apocalyptic melted wastelands that will maybe or maybe not pop into “normal” existence when we’re right over them. Or behind us. Or not at all. Although in fairness, if you fly around an area long enough, most of it will eventually spawn, but that shouldn’t happen.

I can’t speak for others, but this started happening for me with the Japan update. Since then it’s gotten worse and worse every subsequent patch. Asobo seem clueless to the fact this problem even exists and can’t see it or recreate it according to what was said 2 Q&A sessions ago.

I’m hoping that they did find the issue and are including it as part of the USA update next week.Although considering that both LOD and Photogrammetry are listed as being in their backlog, I don’t think it’s getting very high priority atm.

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I was around since launch and I noticed the melted wastelands immediately. I just was so amazed by what I was seeing that I pretty much dismissed it.

I think much of us are victims of “new car syndrome” where for the first couple of months, our new car is perfect and we love every part of it, and then as we get used to it, we start noticing the imperfections of it. And in some cases, those imperfections become a bigger an bigger issue, and a larger annoyance.

I was ALWAYS aware of the limits of the photogrammetry and noticed the Pyramidy look as they popped in. The Japan Update did nothing to change this. But I was focusing, at the time, of being able to fly over my house, so it was no big deal.

Now, the novelty has worn off, and I find myself switching between Photogrammetry on and off depending on my mood.

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Here is an early video of the melted buildings phenomenon: https://youtu.be/FTAMQUNypuo?t=279 (@4:40).

Overall the building quality in that video is pretty good. It seems to me that this issue always existed, but has gotten much worse for some reason.

I never personally noticed it before the Japan upgrade. It’s possible it was there, only less prevalent.

What I noticed in the Japan upgrade is that these melted buildings were appearing in areas where I was flying regularly and hadn’t seen it before. Initially, I could see it in distant buildings. As I got within a few miles, they would fix themselves. With each subsequent update, that distance got shorter and shorter. As of 2 updates ago, I was able to fly over areas for several minutes at 1000 ft and slowly see stuff pop up from the melted wrecks. As of last update, it’s hit or miss if they’ll ever fix themselves. And even if they do, there always seems to be a bunch of melted buildings and trees left behind.

Not just possible, it’s certain it was there. Look at the video I posted, which is from september 4.

The first time I personally noticed it, it was all over the place on Daytona Beach, Florida. I haven’t seen early videos that show it all over the place, only in isolated areas like in the video above.

Cool. Not that I was doubting you. You have video evidence from Sept 4 and that’s good enough for me. I didn’t check because video steaming is blocked on this network (I’m at work on lunch break). Either I wasn’t affected by it at the time or wasn’t noticing it due to the WOW factor of the graphics at close range. I first noticed it after the Japan update. I remember it was quite jarring when I first noticed it. And it’s gotten worse since.

Gotta love that new car smell, until it wears off. I think there is a lot of that going on. There are numerous posts about people noticing a degrading of the graphics and the evidence just doesn’t support that.

Our perception of the graphics have changed, and as we grow more familiar with them, we will see the imperfections even more. It happens all the time. with everything that’s new that later becomes familiar.

I have no issue with the quality. The thing that bugs me is how small the draw distance is for it to load. Autogen area’s load out way beyond that of photogrammetry & I get it’s for performance but it would be nice to have the option to load photogrammetry much further out for those that can or will be able to in future as right now it looks pretty bad a very short distance out.

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