I dunno. IMO there is balance in the Career mode. The time listed is unreliable. I always have to accept the mission to verify the distance relative to the aircraft cruise speed).
I also believe the rewards are generally related to applicable piloting skills and knowledge per mission - an element required for the career field. NOTE: I’m not a real pilot, and only a casual simmer.
For me, the extra Career rewards are an interesting minigame that provides an extra activity within the game. Career Missions are the same as Free Flight Missions with an added storyline attached, as well as serene and calming musical pieces along the journey.
It is a player’s own compelling desire for validation that results in a feeling of constraint.
Time balanced missions - there are choices. However, exiting to menu is also a choice. It is only a game, and a really good one - now that ai can actually oog in and launch it.
If rewards, progression, and comparative validation of success against other players is the primary objective, there are still choices that fit shorter time availability.
COMPANY MISSIONS:
Flrst flight: 30-40K 45 min
SAR Mission fixed-wing: 70-130K in 45 min
Personnal Transport (helicopter): 80-130K in 90 min
Light Cargo Transport: 80-110K in 1.5 to 2 hours
Probably more, but I’m just starting - but I do enjoy Career Mode
EMPLOYEE MISSIONS:
SAR Helicopter Employee mission 80-130K in 45 min)
SAR Fixed-Wing: 80-130K in typically 30 min
VIP Transport: 80- 110K in 1.5 to 2 hours
The rare 2 hour 737 flights reward 130- 190k
I’m content with “Exit to Menu” option. The mission is usually available for me to retstart it for a few days when I have more time. Personnally, I don’t need a source of validation that I’m successful within the game. I just want to fly.
I just enjoy the journey and medium in which MSFS 2024 will eventually deliver. It’s already a relative Miracle (but still in Open Beta Status).
Yes but if you decided to go as an employee you do not have the possibility to change the plane. So we still need to have something for employee. Also people may not want to use a jet for any missions… And there is not resonnable missions for slower planed except sightseeing…
Thank you for your illustrative example of how I can complete a 5 hour mission in about 2:45 hours.
Unfortunately, I cannot confirm this.
In my last cargo medium mission, flown with the C 208 Caravan, the estimated time was also 5 hours. After I left the runway, my total flight time was about 4:30 hours. In real time. How do I know that? - I use the MSFS HudBar (please, report it as a bug! Please, please, please ) to display various values, including the D-ETE.
Perhaps you should have included the wind (currently very prominent in the northern hemisphere) in your calculations. Since wind seems to have a not inconsiderable influence, your calculations remain just a numbers game in my eyes.
But don’t bother, because even with a tailwind I travel considerably longer than your calculated 2:45 hours on such missions.
So maybe just take that as empirical evidence.
However, that’s not really the point.
The OP wrote
At this point, we can’t even get any further with calculations. But we can use a equation because effectively we can say: a lot of playing time = a lot of progress.
So how do we deal with this?
Either we make sure that every player spends the same amount of time on the PC / Xbox. That might be difficult to implement, but if you have an idea, let us know.
Or, which we could also do, we could weight the time.
How do you weight time? Well, for example, by allowing players who have less time to speed it up (sim rate ).
Because of me, we can then also reduce the reward for this. At the end of the day, I just want to have some progress in the 1-2 hours I am able play.
Have we solved our problem with time now? Yes, I think so. At least for now, but more below.
There is one last point we can look at:
I have to disagree with you here.
There is a point - it’s called “having fun”.
Sky is for everyone, and everyone is allowed to play the game the way they like it. At least that’s what the SOP says, but unfortunately not everyone here takes it equally seriously.
You know, I think we can undeniably say that you have more experience in flight simulators than I do. And that’s okay, I don’t begrudge you that.
But what I obviously know more about than you are “gamers”. You can’t lump them all together. There are millions of them, all individuals, just like you and me. And some of them like to get into mischief just because they enjoy it.
The thing is, just because YOU don’t see the point in breaking the rules, cheating or exploiting, doesn’t mean EVERYONE sees it that way.
It’s a sociological fact, it’s called diversity.
So once again, how do we deal with it?
Of course we can demand rules, enforce them and lecture anyone who doesn’t abide by them that they shouldn’t actually be doing that, because it wasn’t planned that way and therefore it shouldn’t be that way.
But I have to seriously ask myself whether that makes sense. Of course you can report parking offenders in front of your house every day, but that will never rule out the possibility that someone will park incorrectly again tomorrow. (I’m not defending illegal parking here - road traffic is serious). So if you close the Simrate API for VFRMap you’ve closed an exploit. But I can assure you, that, right now, in this second someone sits in front of his/hers PC and writes a new program that opens up the exploit again. Of course you can report this as well and this goes on and on and on. Fighting against windmills - also a hobby that you have to like.
Alternatively, we could simply accept that there are people who share the same hobby but perhaps have a different approach, a different understanding of it. - Live and let live, as they say.
That’s why I don’t understand why some people are so bothered by what others do. Especially when it doesn’t affect them at all.
It’s been said 1,000 times in the forum that career mode is single-player. What do I care if Mathieu, Albert, Florence or Fiona teleports from A to B and rakes in millions and millions of credits?
Why should I make a problem out of this and why should I feel to be chosen to take on this problem?
Ask yourselves that. You (pl.), who immediately denounce every opportunity to make the game accessible and fun to everyone - without exception. There’s no need for this sort of exclusive behavior.
There is no one here among the “casuals” who tells anyone how to play the sim.
All we want is to enjoy the game to the same extent as others who have more time or even a completely different understanding of the game. And that without having to be told how to organize our time or which game modes we want to play. Live and let live.
I hope you don’t take my humble contribution as offensive. It is also less about you personally, but more about a whole group of people and it wasn’t my intention to offend you or anybody else, even if I have chosen clearer words here and there and mentioned you as an example. I just wanted to create understanding for another group of people. Whether I succeeded or not is ultimately not up to me. Everyone has to decide for themselves how to be happy. Nobody has any say in that. Live and let live…
And at the end of the day, we all want to stick to the rules, and the rules here are (among others):
The Skies are Open for All - Everyone is welcome to Microsoft Flight Simulator regardless of age, gender, race, sexuality, or creed.
One World, One Community - No matter how you play – regardless of platform, experience level, or reason – we are one community of aviation lovers.
Pre launch, the developers themselves in the below live stream said:
“The career mode is (meant to be) a sim mode… basically there’s progression. We want people to use aircraft that will allow them to make progress in the career… …we want to make sure it doesn’t break the career progression. How do we do that?” Goes on to explain they want to vet addon aircraft to ensure it’s “compatible” with missions types. IE, not offering unfair advantages etc.
Listen for yourself:
Use of time acceleration and teleportation breaks the progression developers intend career mode to have. Its simple.
Career mode is not meant to be a free for all.
I understand people may not have the time to do extra long missions. Usually i dont either, and that’s why i’ve been flying short charter and doing firefighting missions! However, you can’t use your lack of time to justify breaking progression in career mode, stating that you want to be able to use exploits as an equalizer to people who have lots of time. What is happening is the use of exploits are creating huge disparities in progression amongst the community, where those who are using the exploits are vastly far ahead, where those not using them are progressing through the career at the pace that was intended all along. So if its not fair that people with available time to fly will progress further within the same timeframe, why is it fair for you to absurdly accelerate your progress through career?
Ridiculous comment my moneys as good as yours and a save restore function like every game out there solves .this support other simmers enjoy this as much as you nothing mentioned affects you .career mode is single player,
I’m a proponent of allowing some form of flight time compression, with the consequence of some amount of decreased award/XP/payment (like how NeoFly does it).
However, what’s the practical downside of someone being “farther ahead” than someone else? Is there some tangible reward for grinding out missions? Is it just some feeling of being “cheated” out? But cheated out of what?
I hear you my friend. I felt the same way at first but then I found out about the SIM rate. Going to your controls for your keyboard and assign a button as a macro for SIM rate plus and SIM rate minus. Once you get to your cruise altitude and trim out hit Sim rate plus until you are satisfied with how fast it is going. It basically fast forwards. Whatever you’re doing. Then hit Sim rate minus on whatever key you’ve assigned it to the same amount of times to get back down to the normal speed. This will turn a 3-hour flight into a 30-minute flight.
firefighting missions do not spawn for me anymore and the extended attack ones never did … the rescue heli missions have you land in spots that even the best pilot in the world could not land b/c physics does not allow landing on an incline that much … how are these missions sim they are impossible even in a video game … so don’t drone on about how they made sure it’s all sim, they have not … let alone checking mission payouts or anything else to even be logical i don’t blame anyone for skipping with the game in the state that it is …
Again, that’s what Free Flight is for. I see Career Mode as being in-between Free Flight and a sim network like VATSIM. Career Mode requires a commitment more rigid than Free Flight, but certainly not as rigid as VATSIM, which expects adherence to established norms.
You’ve never actually had a career, have you? Piloting an airliner is glamorous to others, but the career is numbingly repetitive. Take off from point A, fly for 8-10 hours, land at point B. It’s not that glamorous, and certainly not something you would call “fun”.
And yet, you’re trying to control how the rules of Career Mode are applied to EVERYONE, not just you. Looking through your posts in this thread, they can be best summed up as, “Why did Asobo make it a rule that if you skip a segment of the Career flight, you lose some of the income applied to that flight? Asobo is going to rue the day they decided on this arbitrary rule because people are going to leave the sim in droves.”
My response is simply that Flight Simulator has been around for 44 years without a Career Mode at all, so I highly doubt people will leave the game over some perceived “mistake” when setting up a new mode. There may be SOME who leave over Career Mode’s rule about skipping - you, for instance - but statistically I believe the number will be negligible.
Yes, you’re right, the dev’s said that in their stream.
But that was BEFORE the MSFS 2024 was released. At the time, no one knew exactly what the career mode would look like and what chaos would reign at the release.
Considering that Asobo has admitted that they left the sim rate in career mode unintentionally, but would find a solution that satisfies everyone equally, you would think that nothing is as unchangeable as it first appears.
Furthermore, the community has so far come up with several suggestions on how to solve the problem. You can find a few topics on this in one of my posts above.
So we can already see that it was not intentional, but they are not completely opposed to it either.
Wow, that’s quite a statement. Now we’re talking.
Who do you think it’s not intended for? Is it only for people who bought the Aviator Edition (which I have - lucky me) or is it only for people who built their own cockpit out of plywood and 10,000 (insert local currency here) and are therefore the “true” aviators?
You see, that’s what I meant in my previous post about exclusionary behavior. Nobody needs that, neither in real life nor here, where I actually want to relax and have fun.
Who actually decides who the real simmer is here? Maybe you should take a look here.
Oh, you want to talk about fairness?
Okay, let’s do that.
So you (and a handful of others) are of the opinion that it would not be fair to gain an “advantage” by using the sim rate, for example.
How about this: Let’s imagine two people. A and B.
A works full-time, is the father of a small child, is building a house and is active in his sports club. Maximum free time per day about 2 hours.
B is unemployed. He doesn’t feel like working either, likes to sleep late and stay up late.
Maximum free time per day about 12 hours.
A and B are passionate about playing MSFS 2024 because they are both totally enthusiastic about avionics and put every free minute they have into it.
Now let’s pretend that your dream has come true. No exploits, no sim rates, just you and your Yoke. Every mission must be played in real time and anyone who even thinks about skipping anything gets their PC banned by Microsoft and has to try their luck with Linux (or macOS yuck).
Who do you think has achieved more in their career after a week? A or B?
Don’t worry, it’s a trick question.
The real question is: is it fair?
From your perspective, the answer would certainly be yes. You might even think that it’s A’s own fault because he works so long, builds a house and has children…
B is just lucky enough to be able to live a carefree life (social assistance in line with European standards provided) and fly as much as he wants.
If we now take a step back and look at the whole thing from the outside, we inevitably come to the conclusion that B has it better than A - at least in terms of free time.
We could also conclude that B’s life is more desirable, because we all here actually want to vote as much as we can.
Is the simple solution then that A has to quit his job and get a divorce?
Can’t there be something else?
Can’t A and B just live their lives peacefully?
If A has no idea how far B is in his career, would that bother him?
Please don’t bother answering, because you’ve already presented your straw man arguments here and they’ve all been completely demolished here.
Listen, I’m not saying anything against your commitment and I’m really happy that you’re so absorbed in your hobby.
Yes, to be honest, I am sometimes a little envious of you guys with your plywood cockpits. (But really just a little – my apartment is just too small and no, I don’t have a kid and I’m not building a house).
But please respect the fact that you are not alone in the world and that not everything revolves around you or the way you play.
Live and let live.
(And if now someone still says “but the dev’s said…”, I’ll assume they’re trolling.)
Because it’s a ‘first person experience’. By all means have progression, but flyers are different and have differing time availability. There should be enough flexibility for everyone to have a good time in line with their needs.
Give me frigging break. I am sick and tired of listening to this BS that career mode is rigid. I am flying in career mode to give my flights a meaning…I also utilize it to see the world without me having to decide where I want to fly. My tool for doing this in MSFS 2020 was the Skypark. Which is now dead due to the career mode in 2024.
This is a simulator. There are no leaderboards, there are no payouts. Use the simulator as you wish and let others use the simulator as they wish. Pretty simple. No one is hurting anyone else by doing what they wish.
I honestly do not understand why people are getting upset because others do not “simulate” they way they want them to.
So the the career mode should be exclusive to people that have the time to play 10h a day. Why then even have the COC if they mean nothing?
A career in real life and a career in a game are totaly different things. That should kind of be obvious.
No I’m the one wanting it to be open to EVERYONE. It’s the handfull of you guys that want it to be only your way. I’m the one wanting people to have a choice how to play. You’re the one wanting to control it. Which one of us is actually doing it in the spirit of the COC? Why do so many people agree with us to bring it back if it’s such a bad thing.
Everytime developers started limiting what you can do in their game the numbers dropped. At this point even a small drop in numbers won’t be a good thing since they’re already low.
The only reason a casual would upgrade to 2024 was the career. The graphic update really isn’t worth the prices they’re charging. And let’s not forget 2024 is dependent on the servers running smothly.
And still none of you answered 1 simple question. How does my abillity to teleport affect your enjoyment of the game?
I was in a similar situation as OP but I used simrate and active pause and everything was fine and I made plenty of money/xp. If you don’t want to do career mode, don’t do it but don’t expect a trophy for minimal effort.
I’d wait until Marketplace opens before making that statement… There’s a sneaking suspicion that Career mode was made purposely “grindy” and time consuming so that buying in-game credits with actual money becomes a thing
100% this. And it’s assigning ridiculous aircraft to these missions. I’m getting Cirrus Vision Jet missions that are saying 30nm and 90 minutes. Then the 5.5 hour caravan missions (which are more like 3. The 90 minute C172 missions which are more like 35-40 minutes.
The hardcore players won’t want to buy credits since they’ll see it as cheating and the casuals won’t want to spend real money for a game where the developers don’t care about them. If thats’s their plan it’s never going to work. All it will do is push even more people away.
With the catastrophic launch and the issues still in the game that would be a slimy move.
) to display various values, including the D-ETE.
).
