15 million concurrent users? Really? And yet they publicly stated they had only planned on 200K logon on launch day…and that was being overly cautious and planning for more than expected. But you say 15 million. Some one should have told Jorg that… and maybe a news organization as 15 million is quite an amazing number.
Just for some information Counterstike…the most popular game in concurrent users was 1.8 million concurrent users.
Addon sales vs subscriptions. As I said, they can make some money on addons through the marketplace. But that is not all of that $50 figure you suggest. I also think that figure is not accurate. Lets see… 15 million users x $50…three quarters of a billion dollars. Yea…not too sure those numbers are even close to realistic…
Now if you have subscriptions that is 10 dollars a month and you have 120 million concurrent XBox subscribers…now that is some real money. So how do you keep that subscription base going? You offer game in every genre of the market. That is how MSFS 2024 survives and continues to be developed at the level of quality photo resolution content it provides. If MS were to take into account, the value cost use of the Bing Maps data…MSFS 2024 would likely be a loser. Do you really think that is not something to consider in the long term viablity of MSFS? This has to become a real game that can compete with the likes of Farm Sim…which runs 50K concurrent users on Steam…and costs a hell of a lot less to produce.
Nice…thanks for telling me. Not really a logical thing to do …but then…LoL.
All in good fun. I doubt very much that 500 people or 1000 even are going to get MSFS to do what you like. If they do it, it will be because their numbers show career mode is failing to produce what they need and so they will move the mechanic out into free flight instead of letting it waste away. And then we will all lose that development line as it will serve no purpose.
BTW… I am not against you Rude…don’t even know you…i’m sure we could have a beer and discuss this with civility and likely get going on many other things concerning msfs which we agree on.
No…In my book Jorg is one of the best game developers I have ever seen…and I believe he knows what the sim needs to survive and his vision is excellent.
As a matter of fact…I kind of think his vision for MSFS 2024 is likely more accurate and realistic…than say… A guy in a forum who wants to tell him to make a major change to the sim because…well…he knows more I guess?
Ironically, the entire sim is like a sandbox that’s not full of sand. Sure it has some, plentiful in some areas, less so in others, but also some dirt, maybe some cat droppings, and a rickety box that we don’t really understand and some days seems barely nailed together.
It comes back to being not ready. But now we’re all sitting in it, finding our own way of doing things while going “what’s next?”
I imagine the reason we’re not being told a lot is that the gulf between what they planned to be the finished product and what we currently have is really wide and it would illustrate some larger problems that someone decided would erode our confidence (and sales) more than if they were more transparent or just withheld the product. That and/or the resources to complete it in a timely manner simply don’t exist and cash flow overrode everything else.
I believe in the product, there’s been quite a few improvements, but it’s really hard to know the direction it’s going to take from here, especially given the amount of bugs and incompatibility right out of the gate. Hopefully they are able to squash the majority of bugs soon so they can get back to implementing whatever they wanted the full feature set to be.
Don’t forget that real-world aviation folks tend to be super picky, trained to notice things that are out of place, some with gobs of subject-matter expertise and experience. There aren’t many other game formats that deal with such a vast array of possibilities and use-cases, the need for accurate global data, a wide user base, and all the little necessary details that get sniped from every angle. Marrying that with whatever vision while making enough money to remain viable has got to be difficult.
Not 15 concurrent users. They said they had reached 15 million users, total. Not concurrent. Those are 2 different things. It was Jorg that provided those numbers back at FlightSimExpo and he reiterated them at the event on the Grand Canyon last September.
You are right that it’s not $50 to Microsoft. But don’t forget that the subscription fee doesn’t go to MSFS either. And that subscription has to pay for the dozens of games that are in the catalog. Since we don’t know if/how that is split (if at all), it’s probably safe to say that if there is a split, MSFS gets cents. And not all 120 million subscribers use MSFS. Again, I am speculating as I don’t know how the model works. If there’s a revenue share, etc.
But, considering these numbers and what we can infer from them, I don’t believe career mode itself, through the subscription system, is what will sustain MSFS because the numbers for that model are too low.
I belive the marketplace will be more of a boost, as well as actual sim sales, not so much the subscriptions. I truly don’t believe a subscriber will ever pay $60 total to MSFS. Sure, they will pay more than that yearly to Microsoft. Just not to MSFS.
I think having it free for Game Pass users is another way for them to either attract new people to the sim or at least to bolster how many “users” they have and they get a bigger share of investment dollars from the company for future iterations and development
Though retention is something else
I would be willing to bet that the developers will see a lot of people using career mode initially but will see that drop off significantly fairly quickly as the newness wears off.
I agree. And that’s why I think they need to keep adding to it as we go. Not only mission types (Jorg has a big list that I sent him some time ago – from which a few of the mission types currently in the game came) and there will be more to add for sure. Newer mechanics, a better economy, multiplayer career, etc…
There’s a lot to expand, really, and I hope they do that.
But, keeping the conversation centered around what we are talking here, folks that don’t want that shouldn’t be forgotten.
So in my humble opinion, career and sandbox don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
I mean, yes, some people will skip the career and just play the sandbox. You probably have that with every game that offers a sandbox.
But what drives people to play the career? I’m not a hardcore simmer. For me personally, it’s the appeal of starting small and then working my way up. It’s motivating for me when someone is waving a reward in front of my nose the whole time. Then ultimate realism is no longer so important to me, to be honest.
I had the most fun with msfs 2020 when I discovered Neofly. Instead of just cranking around aimlessly, I had something to do. Finally.
That’s why I’m a big fan of the career mode - even if it still needs a lot of work.
But nevertheless, I think it would be a nice to have to be able to play a mission just like that. Without the pressure of my reputation or virtual wallet suffering if I fail.
I therefore believe that the two modes can coexist, because at the end of the day a sandbox is nothing more than a career without punishment orreward.
I don’t think that the development of the career mode will suffer because I believe that even the firefighting missions will become boring at some point if there is no progress and no reward. So some, if not the most, people will find their way back to the regular career mode.
That is exactly what we are asking. Something stand-alone that will not punish or reward. We get in the sim, play a free flight mission or two, get a success or failure message and we’re done.
A lot of games have sandbox mode and people keep playing them. It’s no different from a game with a tech tree and an economy with a sandbox mode. Can you think of a game with a tech tree and an economy that doesn’t have a sandbox mode?
Essentially career mode is a tech tree and an economy just like simcity or factorio. The sandbox mode didn’t wreck those games, it won’t wreck this one.
The crew here is not really asking for a sandbox mode.
You don’t start a sandbox game and everything is unlocked up front.
And that is what this thread is proposing that all mechanics and content be unlocked and call it “sandbox mode”.
They call it an ‘Option’, knowing fully well that if you implement this option, you destroy the core design of the Career Mode. If you remove the UNIQUE aspects of the Career Mode and put them in Free Flight…you remove the incentive to play Career Mode.
Then they say well if it removes the incentive to play Career Mode, then career mode must not be good.
An illogical argument along the line of … If we gut you and you bleed out and die, it’s your fault, you must have not been a good human.
Does anyone really think that the massive amounts of money that XBox Studio has put into MSFS is going to be profitable just as a PC simulator?
The reason it was taken off the shelf and developed in the first place was to bring it to the XBox user and Game Pass user base, which is where it can be profitable. Those users are Gamers…not simulation nerds. If there is no compelling Game play, there is no incentive for them to play MSFS…they will be Tourists and move on.
I would play MSFS much more if missions weren’t locked behind a career and with me there would be many more. I would be interested in the career mode if it would be more true to life. I don’t care whether those missions would be part of free flight or sufficient credits to do all the certifications and fly the more intetesting stuff. Flying people around in C172s, I was at that point 15 years ago in my real career, I don’t necessarily want to relive that
I would expect a sandbox mode to have unlimited credits but otherwise still having to play the career, progress can be made much quicker that way. Anyway, this is madness, it needs to be completely free to play.
I think most of us are not looking for unlimited credits. We want open world activities outside of career, ideally in free flight.
I bought a game that comes with a Sikorsky Sky Crane but what use is it if there’s nothing I can pick up and carry in free flight?
We have firefighting planes and helicopters but what are we supposed to do with them if we can’t have fires to put out?
The career is for people who want to do the training, the certifications, earn reputation and money, start a business and buy and manage planes. That’s great and long may those interested enjoy it.
None of this has the slightest thing to do with picking up an object or putting a fire out, both activities of which need to be possible in free flight. Arriving at an accident scene with a medevac heli, etc, these are all activities that should be possible in free flight, otherwise what is the point in even having these specialist planes and helis in the game?
Agree, and until that time it is a no go for me. I’m not spending a second more in career mode doing missions I’m not interested in, which I then can’t finish because of bugs just to get to the more interesting stuff (which is probably also bugged so what is the point). It is a hideous and frustrating experience.
This video shows that they don’t understand their user base. Career mode (if working) is probably good for new simmers, for experienced flight simmers it is unecessary. We bought this new sim because of the new content right? The SAR missions, fire fighting, crop spraying, just to find it is all locked behind a very bugy carreer mode. I think it is not thought through at all.
