You are being way unfair here. It’s like with A310 (or helicopters), some default planes in the sim are just harder to operate than others and it’s up to you to find some proper sources, to learn them. For those who were flying WT CJ4, the changes are minimal and for those who weren’t flying WT version and do not wish to learn complex airplane, there are variety of assist options available.
What Bishop is not addressing, though, are plethora of cut features from the mod version. Already mentioned simBrief, Navigraph integration but even immersion building voice recorder briefings and always helpful check-list. This is a real deal. The other is simply for you to learn and I have hunch, you won’t regret doing as such. Youtube is a thing and I guess new tutorials will pop-up soon enough.
This has been addressed several times on a number of threads (and indeed even this one already), but I certainly don’t mind addressing it again:
The AAU1 CJ4 is not a port of the WT mod and was instead rebuilt from the ground up to an even higher level of accuracy. As such, features have not been so much removed as just not implemented in this version.
SimBrief was not implemented due to legal and contractual reasons. Official sim features that use third party APIs require contracts covering support, service level agreements, data licensing, uptimes, etc, in order to protect the simmers from the disappearance of those features due to issues on the third party end.
Navigraph charts were not implemented due to a lack of a licensing agreement for that data
Pax audio was not included because the rights to that audio could not be obtained
The checklist was not implemented due to time constraints. We felt it much more valuable to instead deliver things like the split FMCs, split MFDs, full RNAV support, support for procedure turns, intercept legs, arcs, and radius-to-fix legs, overhauled VNAV, etc. The checklist has paper versions available so we felt it was delivering the least value compared to those other items.
The difference here is you are comparing an existing aircraft made much harder to fly with no helpful resources (you can’t really expect users to search far and wide through confusing info on their own when making such a forced change), to adding a new study level aircraft and aircraft types. In the case of the A310 and heli’s, nothing was taken away, and users not interested in them lost nothing. With the CJ4, a known system was taken away and replaced with an unknown and no official resource to get up to speed. Nothing was mentioned in the release notes, and the only reason I thought to check the WT info was because I already knew of its existence. I feel sorry for those users that aren’t even half into the weeds of realistic flying that aren’t even going to know that much. I can only imagine the number of players that now think the CJ4 is just completely broken.
This is the type of info I was referring to when mentioning feeling like I need to go to ground school. I understand some, like FMC, MFD, and VNAV. I have no clue about RNAV, procedure turns, radius-to-fix legs, or where to find a proper “paper version” (you mean one to print?)of the check list.
Respectfully, this is the same experience I went through on G1000, and I was first exposed to the FMS back in FSX days.
I followed the evolution of the FMS from Asobo launch, through Matt and Team’s first Mods, to the MS sponsored changes and NXi delivery to Marketplace. It was absolutely a learning curve.
That Learning Curve was equally available to G3000 and CJ4 users. Many of us were chomping at the bit for the AAU1 Beta, because we had all gotten accustomed to having Public Beta access in G1000 to NXi transition.
I know it’s hard, but it’s not an impossibility to learn. And believe it or not, most of us learned G1000 and NXi by reading the actual Garmin manuals. Even prior to Marketplace deployment, that’s how close NXi is to the real deal. I skimmed the G3000 manual myself many times and that’s how I learned it.
As for the nuances of Instrument Flight Rules, even the most extensive Ground School built into FS - arguably FSX’s Learning Center and the famous Rod Machado interactive Lessons - would fall short of how to teach this content. I’m not Instrument certified, and I have some hours towards a PPL. I did it the old fashioned way, broke out the Airman’s Handbook and some IFR instructional books and plowed through the lessons, applied them in the sim.
“SimBrief was not implemented due to legal and contractual reasons”
“Navigraph charts were not implemented due to a lack of a licensing agreement”
“Pax audio was not included because the rights to that audio”
Yeah, was to be expected. Bringing aircraft back to default level, means dealing with much more restrictions, compared to outside freedom. Bummer but I don’t want to cry you about it, especially that your argument is kind of hard to beat. Yep, advanced procedures and systems are much more important, than simple quality of life features. And I thank WT team for what you have done already. I will still miss what was lost in a process, as your CJ4 really had extraordinary… personality. But life moves on.
Slight off topic but I wouldn’t bother your busy person about it, if it wasn’t that in typical Asobo fashion, the list of changes only mention what was added and never what was cut. When I found first item missing, I confusedly investigated entire aircraft searching for what else is missing.
Look, to end this back and forth exchange: you are required now to study this plane a little bit. It’s as it is. As others mentioned, youtube tutorials regarding WT version are more or less suitable to this version as well, few new quirks you will get along the way. I learned CJ4 from those, not even read half of WT guide book and I managed - this is my first sim. It’s all trial and error and personally flying is way more productive, than even 1000 pages of manuals.
But at the end of the day, if you want casual flying, you still absolutely can do it. 3/4 of “complicated” features on this or any other high fidelity plane are entirely optional. If you don’t want to “follow the book” CJ4 is still simple: battery on, engine starters and you’re good to go. You don’t have to fly advanced procedures nor use VNAV. All the options from the old default are there and ready to use.
I am having problem with ILS approach with the new updated CJ4 mod. After I clicked on NAV source to capture Localizer, LNAV was disengaged and plane goes into roll mode. Clicking the autopilot NAV button again did not work. Also same happens when pressing APPR button.
How should I do an ILS approach on the new updated plane?
Hi,
had the same Issue. I noticed that, for some reason, when i choose a Depart and Arrival Airport the Sim autos selected VFR and not IFR, maybe that’s your Issue too?
Or do you enter your Flightplan ingame?
I chose low altitude IFR from world map. Earlier, with the default aircraft I was able to engage NAV and approach mode on ILS without a hitch. Now pressing radio NAV source, disengages the LNAV mode and plane goes into ROLL mode. Pressing NAV button on the autopilot panel does not seem to work properly. Same issue with APPR button as well. LNAV gets disengaged.
@ContentMouse39 It is actually quite easy still if you want it to.
You can still create the flight plan on the world map and the plane will load it.
Technically you don’t need to interact with the FMS at all to just do a flight.
If you then want to fly with the autopilot in LNAV the only complexity to be aware of is that, in comparison to the previous simpler version, you have to be close to the magenta line of the flightplan for LNAV to engage. So you simply go into HDG mode to hit that line and it will capture. (LNAV goes from white to green at the top of the PFD).
Otherwise maybe you could tell us how you did your flying before and what your scenario is and we can help you further.
I think it is still possible to casually fly this plane without going to deep into everything.
Going into ROLL when the NAV source changes is correct behavior. And as you tried you should then go into LNAV again or APPR if desired.
In case of an ILS, make sure the frequency was tuned into NAV1 on the TUN page. This doesn’t always work for some third party airports.
This newer version also supports a feature called NavToNav. When an ILS procedure is selected in the flight plan it will automaticall tune the frequency when getting close to the destination airport. When you get close to the first waypoint of the and are on a course to intercept it, then you hit APPR and it will arm APPR LOC and GS (in white on the top of PFD).
As soon as the Localizer is captured it will automatically switch the NAV source for you. So you wouldn’t have to care about that part at all.
Problem is I was unable to re engage the LNAV after that.
I was doing flight plan from world map including the ILS approach.
Also during cruise LNAV bugged out by tracking a waypoint that was already crossed (distance to waypoint kept increasing and the next waypoint was not followed in GPS) thus losing navigation. I had to use direct to to get to the next waypoint.
Unrealistic or not the default cj4 before the update was playable. I am a casual simmer. We have few options if default aircraft become complex. The realism simmers and hardcore simmers always had free and paid addon aircraft for realism.
I rarely flew the original CJ4, it didn’t feel right somehow, and being on Xbox the WT mod wasn’t available. But I have now been flying the updated CJ4 since the AAU1 beta and I really enjoy it! It’s one of my favorite planes now. Being used to the Garmins it took a while to understand the FMS in the CJ, but I actually find it quite easy to use and intuitive. I’ve only watched a few Youtube videos and figured out the rest myself.
So kudos to WT for bringing us this fine update. I think it’s fantastic!
Now, if only the G3X would get some (much needed) love from WT @Bishop398
Look at it as an opportunity to expand your knowledge base of real aircraft operations. It’s very close to the “teach a man to fish” saying. Once you learn how to use one FMC, and how to operate one jet, you’ve pretty much learned how to operate them all, with minor variations.
As for having two branches of the CJ4 in the game, I don’t think that’s likely. MS is paying Working Title a lot of money to be first tier developers, equal to Asobo in the dev process, to bring avionics, and aircraft updates into the game. Updates that are as reasonably close to 1:1 simulations of avionics as is possible.
I think you have to request it from the in game ATC.
Side not though, IRL, ground power is never used in the CJ4. For one, FBO’s charge a lot of money for a GPU hook up, but beside that, the engines running on the ground, sip so little fuel, it’s cheaper to just start them, and then get set up, versus, hooking up a GPU.
After the update the CJ4 FMS is worse than with the WT version, it is missing a lot of items that the WT version has. I prefer the WT CJ4. What happened??
I had to put back the WT mod and is working fine. Don’t see any of the big changes talked about. And the complicated explanation to add the update is really bad. Have to be an IT professional to do it. I hope that someone fixes this issue.
