Considering a New Sim: Those With Years of Experience in the Sim World Please Read

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a few introductory points: I’m happy with MSFS, I enjoy the scenery, and love the multiplayer experience. I enjoy using the B748 for long-haul’s but have noticed a severe memory leak about 6 hours into my flight. I simply save current progress and get back into it and everything is fine. I’ve watched several youtube videos and several streams using different configurations (pmdg+p3d, xplane+flight factor, etc)

I’m interested in adding either xplane or p3d. I really enjoy flying the B748 in MSFS. I plan long-hauls and fly on vatsim. Two of my favorite things in flight sim are group flights and long-hauls w/ vatsim. Using tools such as ForeFlight, navigraph, and LNM.

I’m strongly considering adding p3d or xplane specifically for my long-haul flights and perhaps more importantly, to purchase a nice aircraft. I have been interested in the PMDG products (B748 and B77W).

I need help from the experienced audience. I don’t know what p3d or xplane feels like. I’m not really interested in making either one of them look and feel pretty. I’m mostly interested in getting an amazing payware aircraft aka PMDG and flying long-haul on vatsim. That’s it. I would like the flight deck to feel as real as possible. That’s the end goal.

This post would be pointless if I could try the pmdg + p3d or any other combination before making a commitment. But it seems that is not possible.

I’m looking for the “what does it feel like” from the experienced audience. When you get into your PMDG aircraft how does it feel when compared to the B748 in MSFS. Is it insane, a life changing experience? If yes, then I’m buying right now, today. If it’s, “well, it’s good, but not much better or maybe not worth the $400 investment.” Then that will make me think twice.

Such a hard decision because of the what ifs. The way it makes a person feel might be highly subjective.

I couldn’t decide where to post this. I understand that there is some bias posting this in MSFS but the same would be for any other forum. I felt this would be the best place because the experienced audience will have come from either xplane, p3d or both and that is the audience I’m reaching out to.

Sorry for the wording in this post. I know my thoughts are all over the place but I think this helps you understand what I’m asking for more clearly.

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Doesn’t X-Plane have a free demo?

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I would go with P3Dv4 myself.
The keyboard commands and other items are quite similar to MSFS (since they both came from the same base sims) which will make it easier to learn the sim.
Both the PMDG products are available for V4, the 747 is not available in V5.

PMDG have pretty much nailed a prototypical aircraft.
Night and day between theirs and default aircraft regarding looks, systems and system depth, procedural reality, and accurate performance. That makes it feel much more “realistic”.
PMDG is one of the top brands for a reason!
Remember though, graphics wise, MSFS cockpits are probably just a bit nicer!

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I use MSFS for VFR flights…(low and slow)…and use P3DV5.1 for Tube liners…(so best of both worlds)…namely PMDG 737…am about to purchase the PMDG 777 now that it is compatible with P3DV5.1… however devs such as iFLY and Quality Wings also have very, very good products for P3D.

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Personally I would go with X-plane. I was on P3D for years before making the switch and I never looked back. There are a lot of quality payware jets, the Zibo 737 is about as good as anything I’ve seen- and it’s free. It looks and sounds MUCH BETTER than the PMDG option too. You also have a pile of decent freeware scenery and you can install orthos to give your world a little bit of realism.

In P3D, expect to spend a ton of money just to get the basics going- the default world is awful. You’ll need a weather engine, jets, sceneries, utilities. You name it, you’ll need it. Not too mention that platform is about as dead as dead can be- multiple developers have said as much. X-plane still has some life in it, especially as people wait for MSFS to mature a bit. Plus, there will undoubtedly be an Xplane 12 soon enough.

Of course you’ll hear from loyalists from either side, and a lot of it will boil down to preference. However, with X-plane all you really need is the game and then you can experiment without investing money into a lot of addons beforehand.

Happy flying!

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I agree with [TheSevenflyer]
I use P3D when I want to fly my PMDG triple 7 and FSX when I use my FsLabs Concorde

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I have done exactly what you are describing. I bought X-Plane 11 and P3D 5.1…

I don’t care for X-Plane at all and the available aircraft isn’t anywhere near P3D.
In terms of the interface, if you use MSFS, P3D will feel very familiar with only a few adjustments. The selection of aircraft on that platform is by far superior to any other sim at this moment. HOWEVER. Be prepared to invest at least $1000. You will need P3D, ActiveSky, at least all the Orbx Global Range products, and some airliners (most of which are $100-$200 a piece)… I feel that in order to get any enjoyment out of P3D coming from MSFS, you HAVE TO spend serious money on it. You will have trouble stomaching graphics without all the Orbx Global Range products (Base pack, Vector, LC for each continent, Trees/Vegetation, Buildings)… Those make it look acceptable. And there is A LOT of aircraft available, but most of the heavy-hitters (PMDG, FSLabs, etc) will give you a VERY good experience, but will cost you at least $140 or so a piece for an airliner. I’d suggest starting with FSLabs A320 and PMDG 737. 737 is only $100 without the expansions. FSLabs is more.

Like I said, prepare to spend money. I spent around $2000-$3000 on P3D in about 2 months… And that’s without buying a SINGLE AIRPORT!

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747 is available for v5. I use it. :wink: Right now all 3 - 737, 747, and 777 are updated for P3D v5.1

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For X-Plane: Is there even a decent 747 available for X-Plane nowadays? The SSG one was a bag of nails the last time I touched it last year. Take other’s opinions on the Zibo 737 as never touched it. Flight Factor A350 was the b***ard child of 2 development houses and took 4 odd years of mostly silence following release before it was updated with Sids and Stars and other fixes. Toliss A319 and A321 both good quality, likewise with the Flight Factor A320. Flight Factor 777 and 787 both golden oldies and looking their age but seem popular. Ini Builds A300 gets rave reviews. There a lot more out there.

Be aware there’s some absolute shockers out there in X-Plane payware land; Peter Hager A380 for example, and if you go the X-Plane route and sniff around the X-Plane org store ( looks official but isn’t) then tread very carefully as it’s full of junk with a few quality diamonds in the rough. Q8 Pilot does some good reviews on Youtube and flies X-Plane a lot so worth a look. V1 Simulations is a real world Airbus pilot who flies a lot of X-Plane streams along with really good tutorials so also a highly recommended source.

The free trial of X-Plane might be a good start so you can see whether the whole look and feel of it suits you.

Be prepared to blow a big hole in your wallet whichever route you decide to take though.

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I remember good old days in FSX PMDG737 and FS2Crew with voice control. It felt like being right there. Those days are gone, after MSFS I just can’t bear with previous gen visuals. I am afraid you could find yourself in the same situation after spending a significant amount of money on PMDG etc. You’ve been warned :slight_smile:

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Maybe ask on the P3D or Xplane forums … they would probably have more experience than ppl on here.

To be honest, I was flying the 737 and A321 on FSX up until August (and I am a VATSIM user). They were both stock aircraft, and both had fully functional everythings, MFDs, switches and buttons … all worked.

So, coming to MSFS 2020 and the A320neo and having less than 20% of switches and buttons working, and only 2 MFD screens was VERY disappointing - even the seatbelt sign switch was inop !!! - so I feel your need for realism and understand how it is a let-down in MSFS2020.

The FlyByWire team released their A32NX mod, and now the A320 is pretty much 80% switches and buttons operational, and with the addition of the working MFDs, correct BUGs and the other amazing corrections, it’s almost like the real thing (well, sim wise)

There is also the mod for the 787 systems, 787-XE. It might give you the things you are looking for, I have not tried it as the 787 is a little big for my taste — I don’t even like the 747 as it is a little big :¬)
FlyByWire are developing an A380 from scratch, but as that is virtually an obsolete aircraft, I would rather wait for someone to do a 737Max (that doesn’t use Boeing software!) or something more exciting.

Good luck with your search :¬)

Links:
A320 mod: GitHub - flybywiresim/a32nx: The A32NX Project is a community driven open source project to create a free Airbus A320neo in Microsoft Flight Simulator that is as close to reality as possible. It aims to enhance the default A320neo by improving the systems depth and functionality to bring it up to payware-level, all for free.
787 mod: GitHub - lmk02/B787-XE: A modification of the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 787-10

Video of startup in the A320neo using the FBW A32NX: Maracaibo to Aruba with a senile autopilot and a sharp telling off from the tower ! A32NX FlyByWire - YouTube

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From an XPlane simmer, if you fly long haul don’t buy it :slight_smile:

The quality of lh airliners at the moment is simply not comparable with P3D, if you consider products such as PMDG’s 777 or Qualitywings 787.

But as other folks have said, it’ll come at a cost :slight_smile:

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Whaaaa…
If you fly long haul as for XP11 you can do it quite well for a reasonable cost
The free Zibo 737 is one of the best…there are 757, 747, A319, A320 etc.
This thread isn’t going to get you a good answer as you can see.
“PMDG” is NOT the end all for tubeliners.
I would certainly highly recommend the free XP11 demo if you purchase it and download the free Zibo 737 for what both give you this in itself is a cheap investment.

FWIW I have all three of them and at the moment for me MSFS2020 is GA/VFR only. The game just isn’t ready for prime time yet. It may get there at some point.

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I can’t say I have direct experience with either, but from the research I’ve done on them, this is my take on it.

  • P3D if you have deep pockets and can throw $1000+ at it without a second thought just to get started.

  • X-Plane otherwise.

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I switched from P3D to XP11 about two years ago and my only regret is that I didn’t make the switch earlier.

It took me a while to get used to flight physics and dynamics of the new simulator, which, in my opinion, are much better than P3D and in some aspects, are little better than MSFS.

P3D is basically a 64-bit FSX with HDR. As a longtime FSX user, I see that little progress has been made from FSX. I don’t think it’s because of Lockheed Martin’s incompetence but because there’s not much to squeeze out from a 15-year-old engine.

I think the only reason people are still flying on P3D or prefer P3D over XP11 is the PMDG aircrafts (737,747,777), which are undoubtedly the most realistic aircrafts in the flight simulator market.

You can’t say the XP11 doesn’t have any high quality aircraft (Depending on what you consider high quality). The Inibuilds A300, the Zibo 737 which is free, FFA320, Toliss A319 / A321, FF757 and 767, the Colimata Concorde, etc. Obviously, none of these aircraft have the same quality as a PMDG aircraft, but they have excellent fidelity to flight systems and dynamics and unless you are a very demanding user, you can enjoy flying with them. And new high-quality XP11 aircrafts are expected to hit the market in the near future like the Toliss A340-600, FF787, Inibuilds A310, Rotate MD-11, etc.

So, if you want study-level aircrafts and have $1000+ in your wallet to spend on addons, go to P3D. If not, go to XP11.

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Visually…both have their shortcomings which may compel you to spend $$$ on addons just to get thnigs looking half decent.

There really is no good addon / solution for XP clouds…they are horrible…at any altitude…and they drain performance. I say this bcuz i suspect that after experiencing MSFS sky / clouds, you will want something that comes as close as possible. XP’s sky (and water) is like going backwards 15 years.

For long-hauls…I would go with P3D. There are a lot of options for sky / weather / aircraft etc and the performance is better (at least on my system),

Ultimately, I think you would save $$$ just waiting for things to improve with MSFS, but if you have at least $500 to burn on addons…then go with P3D and the various addons to get it somewhere in the ballpark of what MSFS has to offer visually.

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P3D is for folks who don’t mind spending $60 for the current version…
then taking a dice roll chance of buying 3rd party addons that may or may not be compatible with the next version update. Then going to cry to Lockheed Martin about it only to be blown off with “uh yea we’ll look into that” or “ask the 3rd party addon developer to reach out to us”.

No thanks!

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I love long hauls.
I have both MSFS and XP.
I’m doing all my long hauls in XP.
I do all my flights on Vatsim.

Some quick comments:

  • I use the FFA350 in XP for ultra-long hauls, the cockpit graphics are not very good but the plane is really good. No problem doing 16hr flights.
  • For long to mid range I use the A321N LR by Toliss or the IniBuilds A300. With the A321N you also get the 321 XLR for longer flights I don’t use it because it is not in production yet.

What is coming?

  • IniBuilds is doing the A310 that is a long-hauler and also the A380 but this last one will probably take longer.
  • Toliss has announced the A340 for the second half of 2021.
  • Felis is very advanced with the 747-200 which will be a fantastic airplane for XP.

I would go with XP just for the 747-200 and the IniBuilds planes (A300 freighter and A300 pax already available and the A300 Beluga coming these days)

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I’ve been at it since 1980. At this point, where I to jump into a different sim from MSFS, I would do P3D 4.5 i you don’t have a really strong GPU, and 5.x if you do. But here’s the catch, for me: MSFS has completely spoiled me for what scenery should be. Rather than try to make P3D look anywhere near as good as MSFS does, which I did for many years and hundreds of dollars in Orbx scenery, I now simply fly in scenarios that don’t require high fidelity scenery: I fly the PMDG NGXu/777 from dusk to dawn only, when all that really matters is quality 3rd party terminals. The dusk/dawn sky colors and night lighting are nice to look at, but most imporantly and I mean this: I can dial complexity sliders WAY back now because it no longers matters. This means I can fly the hard to process PMDG planes and have wonderfully smooth performance in all areas. If you try to make P3D look too good you will suffer from poor performance in complex areas. I fly MSFS during the day, short IFR flights and have a long pilot career going in FSCaptain in P3D. I love them both and fly daily. P3D is a phenomenal cockpit simulator and I enjoy the planning and execution. Even the highest graphic quality possible doesn’t hold a candle to MSFS, so why try to put lipstick on the pig. It is very liberating to have fabulous liquid smooth stutter-free performance in all areas of the flight plan, AI traffic, etc. I wish I hadn’t spent the money and hassle buying all of that scenery which only taxed P3D so much it simply was not worth it. Low light is your friend in P3D! I’m about 75% in P3D, 25% in MSFS. I look forward to when MSFS can run PMDG planes and FSCaptain after which I will leave P3D permanently.

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Interesting observation :thinking: Thanks for contributing

You may wish to consider that people posting on here have a lot of experience and knowledge flying those other sims for years, so are well placed to answer the OP’s question just as well as anyone on those other forums. :grey_exclamation:

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