Defining Stuttering

Discussion Hub General Discussion
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Stuttering is such a widespread issue amongst simulators. I think that it is very important for us, as a community, to define what kind of stutter we are talking about. The word “stutter” can be loosely interpreted in many different ways. For instance, the word stutter can pertain to micro stutters, pauses, judder, freezes, stop and go, etc. The list can go on and on and on.

If we can say “I’m experiencing stutter #1 and #3 on this flight,” we (as the community) will be able to know exactly the type of stutter the person is talking about. This may help us to find if it is a local issue, or if it’s a widespread issue.

Used in the definition can be a “graph” displaying what the experience may feel like where ___ is smooth and | is a stutter.

This is rough, but here are my thoughts:

Stutter #1: ___|||___|||___|||___“Consistently paced micro stuttering that alternates between smooth and stutter. Game is technically playable.”

Stutter #2: ___|___|___|___|___ “Consistently paced micro-pauses that alternate between smooth and micro-pause. Game is technically playable.”

Stutter #3: ___|||||___|||||___|||||___ “Consistently paced long-pauses that alternate between smooth and long pauses. Game is unplayable.”

Stutter #4: __|||__||___|||__|__||_|__||_ “Inconsistently paced micro-stuttering. Game is technically playable.”

Stutter #5: _|___|_|__|___|__|_|__ “Inconsistently paced micro-pauses. Game is technically playable.”

Stutter #6: _______||||||||||___|||||||| “Inconsistently paced long-pauses. Game is unplayable.”

Stutter #7: _____|_____ “Smooth gameplay for many consecutive minutes with a long 1-5 second pause, followed by smooth gameplay for many consecutive minutes. Game is technically playable.”

Stutter #8: ____|____|____ “Smooth gameplay for many consecutive seconds with a 1-2 second pause, followed by smooth gameplay for many consecutive seconds. Stutters occur at consistent intervals. Gameplay is technically playable.”

Stutter #9: _|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
Very consistent 1 second long freeze every second or so…

Again, this is just an outline, and I’d like your feedback to get the definitions correct so we may all benefit from other’s experiences.

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For me the most annoying thing is more like _________|__________, where the spike is a 2-second total freeze every 10-20 minutes, at any place for no apparent reason. But I don’t think it’s common among fellow simmers.

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yesterday i expierienced such freezes for the first time. I dont know if there was something going on in the backend/servers but multiple times i had a complete freeze for a few secs and then it went along.

I appreciate the idea of this thread. Im guessing 99% of peoples screaming “STUTTER!” have no idea what to do to avoid them. getting a constant framerate/frametime is absolutely necessary to get the smoothest experience possible. Setting the monitor to 30Hz and enable vsync 30FPS is the way to go for the smoothest stutter-free gameplay. It always has been with flightsimulators. As long as there is no hardware to run it at 60FPS minimum…

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It’s still a stutter type, so let’s define it. I’ll put it in there.

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I appreciate your input. I’d like to keep this thread about defining the stutters, not the cause. When a problem with stutters comes up, we’ll be able to use the definitions created in this topic to help define the situation that the player is experiencing.

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Good initiative to classify this ! With my low-end video (MX-330) i see types 2 and 5 and very rarely 7. Here it is mainly micro-stutters, the pause in between can be irregular but most times it is like clockwork ca 1S in between. Especially with lots of scenery at low altitude. When I go ca 2000 Ft, the micro-stuttering disappears. I do not use any cache.

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One thing to consider is any addons that you have which include legacy FSX textures. One of those is the AI boats traffic addon.
When a texture like that is loaded for the first time (i.e. you are getting close to the scenery object), the sim converts it to new format and places it in a directory called xxx_msfs_v1_CVT in your community folder. If you have a folder like this then you can be sure some of your freezes were for that.
I have such freezes every now and then, those are harmless and the sim is perfectly playable.
Micro stutters like #2 are more annoying and frequent in large airports /busy areas.

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Oooh, indeed i installed that boat traffic just yesterday and it was the first time i experienced it.
So there it goes to the trash-bin! :slight_smile:

Thanks for telling me that. Thats another reason for all the guys screaming “STUTTERS!” all over the place, downloading EVERY trash “mod” that is on flightsim.to… (There a very good ones out there tho)

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I’d define stuttering as interruptions that arent caused by your hardwares limitation.

But I think all the confusion in msfs lately is caused by people not realizing the difference between fps and other interruptions like stutters or freezes or you name it.

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Glad I’ve helped :slight_smile:

The good thing is that once this is done, you won’t get the same freeze for the same texture again. The sim will pull the new texture directly.

Re: trash addons - I couldn’t agree more - there are voices asking to add a filter for google earth rips, as those are almost guaranteed to be tens- or hundreds of thousands of files, massive size, completely unoptimised.

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For me its stutter #3 when multiplayer is on and im at an airport or jut about to take off /land

Multiplayer off , hardly any sutters at all

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#4 and #5 for me frequently, with the occasional #7. I have multiplayer off but live traffic/weather on.

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Hi All,

I’d have to say my system plays MSFS 2020 at your number 2 listing. The micro stutters are almost un- noticeable unless you’re watching for them.
I play offline, so there is no input from the servers and I run my 8 year old Dell XPS with settings appropriate for the age of my pc. My only ultra setting is with the clouds.
I cached the locations I most frequently fly.
I get 25-30 fps at altitude and flying among the buildings in NYC, I’m presently getting 15-18 fps. I usually keep the fps settings off. As long as it looks smooth to my eyes, I’m pleased.

John

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Sometimes I get #5 which either clears up or progresses to #6. When it gets in that state it only gets worse, sim time falls behind the actual time, memory use keeps increasing and the only way out (and back to normal smooth) is to restart the game.

Sometimes pausing the game will clear it up a but (memory use slowly going back down while paused) but it never fully recovers the same as restarting the game in the same spot.

Occasionally I get #7, when entering a new PG area at high speed, or by plugging any USB device in while flying. The game does not like that.

I’ve never noticed any rhythmic stuttering, it’s always inconsistently paced.

Although once long ago I have consistently paced long pauses. Those were caused by turning ATC voices off while delegating ATC duties to the co-pilot. Under certain conditions the upcoming airport would deny my co-pilots (silent) landing request. The co-pilot keeps retrying, and not having ATC voices on caused multi second pauses every time he attempted to ask for landing permission. It took a while to find what caused that. It would happen at any airport but usually just once (permission granted)

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With respect for your topic but… experiencing and defining stutters is one thing but more important is why it happens.
Root cause analysis is key to solve them, that’s what @ PeterE1959 means.
My experience in this is that most of the problems/limitations are client-side based.
For example: I’m using a humble Lenovo IdeaPad S540 with an I7 CPU , 1650 Q-max GPU, 12GB Ram and a 1 TB SSD.
With that in mind, you can imagine that I cannot max-out my graphics without stutters , slide-shows and worse.
It also depends strongly on the environment you are flying, if you’re flying under real live weather, solo or multiplayer, Wifi or LAN.
And indeed, Peter injected a very valid question
For example: I’m a happy sim-flyer in not so densed area’s like around EHTE and most part of the Netherlands at medium settings but as soon as I approach big cities I know what’s about to happen. ( right, stutters )
So, bottom line my real point is: What’s the purpose of having a categorie-list of stutters?
Happy :small_airplane:

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I consistently get #7. Would really like to know whe cause is. I have an I7 8700K @ 4.9 with 2070 GPU and 32GB RAM.

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The categorization of stuttering is more for troubleshooting than anything else. When we can approach the issues objectively, it allows us to see what is happening though another lens. Obviously, if you know that your hardware can’t handle large cities, there is no point in posting about stutters in the first place. However, when something weird happens…i.e. if you’re flying around EHTE and experiencing stutters for the first time, it would be helpful to know what kind of stutters you’re talking about.

By keeping things objective, we may be able to discover the root causes of some of these various kinds of stutters. Over time, we should have a pretty well defined understanding that (for example) type A is likely due to data streaming, type B is likely due to settings too high for your system to handle, type C is likely due to multiplayer…etc. This can help people quickly and efficiently troubleshoot their issue and get back to flying. It also helps to weed out minor annoyances vs a problem with the sim.

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I think the best application to measure stutters is your eyes. If the simulator is running smooth to your eyes then its definitely playable. You don’t need any applications to tell tell you.

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For me it’s Number 4, which is happening all the time. Doesn’t matter where and what it shows on screen. I fly with multiplayer off but live weather exclusively. Smaller planes, only Bushtrips, currently on a world tour with the 208. I fly a lot at night currently.

I mostly notice it when I fly zoomed out in drone camera, the plane very small over the earth underneath. From cockpit it’s the same stuttering, but not as disturbing.

I can’t say MSFS is ever not doing Number 4 stuttering.

I can play it and I will continue to do so, but it has a long way to go to be a smoothly running game. It’s what it is for now.

I believe in time the devs will resolve the issues. No need for me to complain, they propably know very well about it.

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Stutter is what makes me nervous in any flight simulator