DLSS 3.0 Frame Generation at low FPS

User Support Hub Install, Performance & Graphics
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I’m debating whether to go for a Nvidia 4080 or AMD 7900 XTX as upgrade to a 3080 10GB.

** TLDR ** Does Nvidia Frame Generation help in low fps CPU bound situations ?

It really bothers me (to say it kindly) that Nvidia decided to go with only 16 GB VRAM for their second fastest GPU ever to this date, while AMD was offering the same VRAM more than 2 years ago in a mid tier card.
I can imagine the 7900 XTX aging better than the 4080 in a few years, much like what it’s happening now in some modern games with the 8 GB cards of the 30XX series launched not even 3 years ago.

On the other hand, the 4000 series brings frame generation. Generally, if I get stable fps above 40 at 4K native, I prefer it that way rather than introducing blurry and artifacts in exchange for higher frames.
The thing is that typically, fps lower than 30-40, tend to be due to CPU limitation, and nothing the GPU can do to help, unless perhaps Nvidia frame generation.

I’m asking this after watching the very interesting analysis of DLSS 3.0 by Digital Foundry. One of the things mentioned is that FG need a certain minimum of rendered frames in order to work properly.

So my question to those who have tried, does FG+TAA help when for example you’re on board an airliner in a busy payware airport with traffic and CPU limited at 25-30 fps ?
Smoothness, strange artifacts ?
Thanks for the feedback.

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In all but the most extreme situations, yes, it helps significantly.

Sometimes MSFS just gets weird and you end up with, say, 14 fps in an area where you’ve gotten better performance before. In those cases, even though it would double the fps to 28, the input reads would be at 14 fps so it would feel jerky still. But those are those weird anomaly type situations, and 95% of the time, DLSS makes things silky smooth in MSFS. Using a 4070Ti (so less VRAM and a little slower than the 4080), I typically get around 100 fps on a 4K TV set using my SFF PC. In the most demanding areas, such as Manhattan while also using a lot of AI airline traffic, I still maintain about 70-80 fps, which would be 35-40 without the frame generation.

TL;DR – Nvidia 4000-series card absolutely earns its pay in MSFS.

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I’m wondering how this all works with Low Framerate Compensation (LFC) also thrown into the mix.
On my 165hz Gsync-compatible LG monitor LFC kicks in below 72 fps if i remember correctly, showing every GPU rendered frame two or three times on my monitor.

Let’s say my PC manages to produce 20 fps in a certain MSFS scenario, then you might end up with a perceived 80, or maybe even 120 fps?
(DLSS 3 frame generation turning 20 fps into 40 fps, and on top of that LFC showing every frame at least twice, maybe even three times. So that 40 fps turns into 80, or 120 fps).
Surely that must cause problems/artefacts, turning 20 actual/real frames into 120, right?

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My thoughts are frame generation is good in theory, but not really practical for the sim, nor do I have any desire for it period because I wouldn’t need 100+ fps. Give this video a look.

Notice that on a 4090 he gets about 50fps without FG. When I get that (albeit on a lower end card at reduced settings), things are buttery smooth. When he turns FG on, yes frame rates are much higher, but the base frame rate is low enough to make artifacts fairly noticeable. Personally I would prefer to fly without FG at a smooth 50fps without artifacts over 100+fps with artifacts. Since it’s unlikely I would notice much difference in smoothness either way, 100+fps in general is overkill for me. This isn’t an action or competitive game. I would even go so far as to reduce settings to increase my frame rates vs FG if I felt performance was low.

So in the context of looking at only the rasterized performance in the sim without FG, my vote is the 7900xtx and is what I’m getting for my next upgrade unless the next series cards are coming out by then. It’s cheaper, trades blows with the 4080, and I think edges out in the sim specifically. I would only consider the 4080 if going VR or maybe better ray tracing support.

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Yeah, I often see posts like this from people who don’t have cards with frame generation. :slight_smile: Fact is, it does make a huge difference. I don’t notice any artifacts by setting DLAA (rather than DLSS scaling).

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What pushed me the most to upgrade from the 3080 was it having only 10 GB, which at 4K, high/ultra settings and with payware airliners and airports starts to be a limitation.

The 16 GB of the 4080 may be be more than enough now, but it doesn’t make me feel very comfortable for the future. I could see myself in 2-3 years in the same situation I am now looking for an upgrade because of VRAM.

The day one reviews of the 7900 XTX back in December 2022 always showed it lagging behind the 4080 in MSFS especially at 4K (without frame generation), but some more recent benchmarks suggest the 7900 XTX to be on par or even to surpass the 4080.
Perhaps driver optimization ?

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You might not notice them, but they stuck out like a sore thumb for me on that video. No way am I spending that kind of money on something that gives potentially overkill performance at the risk of artifacts. To each their own, but it’s not like we can easily demo cards on our own systems to see for ourselves.

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My take on frame generation for MSFS (from someone who never used it) is that it could potentially help in low fps situations, but at the same time it seems to be also one of the major limitations to properly implement it, as the generated frame should not be left on the screen for too long between rendered frames as it could cause the artifacts to become more visible.
I don’t know how low in terms of rendered fps in MSFS the FG needed to have to still do an acceptable job.

On the other hand, in any situation above 50 stable rendered frames per second without drops, what’s the point of turning on FG ?

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MSFS is such a slow moving game that there is hardly any artifacting (caused by FG).

The two exceptions are :

The PIO markers can break up when you pan the camera. I’ve rarely used them so it doesn’t effect me. (UI Elements in other games can have the same problem)

When you jump from inside view to outside view (and vice versa) you will get a very slight artifact for the obvious reason that if Frame 1 is showing the inside view and Frame 3 is showing the outside view, what does Frame Generation do for Frame 2? Well there’s not really much it can do - it tries to pick the bones out of 2 totally different images and fails :slight_smile:

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I completely understand what you mean to be a slow game, but still kinda funny how doing mach 0.8 is considered slow, but a guy on foot shooting enemies is fast paced !! :rofl:

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I have something that i dont understand about Frame Generation:
DLSS is known to make the Glasscockpit screens very blurry and we see a lot of ghosting on them.
Is this also true when we enable Frame Generation? Or does it not use the down-/upsampling?

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You can use frame gen with TAA only… Glass Cockpits should be clear

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Simply use FG with TAA and it will be fine

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I am someone who went from a rtx3080 10 GB to a 4090. Initially I wanted a rtx 3090 as i often hit vram limit on my rtx3080. But in my country where the second hand market can be a minefield, i had to buy new when spending so much… and the 3090s were hardly any cheaper compared to the 4090s, so i but the bullet and went 4090. Initially I was very skeptical about dlss3 fg, i still am sceptical about turning it on in other more fast paced games. But i was pleasantly surprised by it’s effect on msfs. If the base frame rate is anywhere near 30 or above, it just works great for me. Yes i have seen some artifacts with dlss fg, but those are limited to scenereos when i am panning the camera in external view and also in difficult light conditions like dusk or dawn. Most of the time I don’t even notice that it’s on.

Keep in mind i am only talking about dlss frame generation. I still don’t like the ghosting caused by the dlss2.

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I completely relate to your case.
I sold my 3080 hoping to put another 200 Eur for an used 3090 to solve my VRAM issue and to get a bit extra of performance.
The used market offers a few 3090’s some of which were mining or others still dreaming that they can sell an used one for more than 1000 Eur.
Then I thought I can put a bit more and look for a new 4080 or a 7900 XTX, but both of these still come with shortcomings despite their prices, and I’m now trying to justify to myself why I should perhaps just get a 4090 !!!

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There’s another video called “140 FPS in Microsoft Flight Simulator” also by SimHanger Flight Simulation, where he also tests DLSS 3 FG.

image

Around 8:10 there is a scene in Brussels airport where he is reaching around 70 fps, this being the sum of rendered + generated frames, which means generated frames would be around 35 fps and the image looks very smooth, but still this is a YouTube video, I don’t know what kind of processing it has been through since the image was captured until it’s displayed in YouTube.

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He doesn’t show the sim frame counter in every comparison. In the ones he does show, it’s always main thread limited. At 9:55 he also mentions that his performance would likely improve with a newer CPU over his 10900k. Again, I would prefer to turn settings down, especially TLOD and/or AI traffic in that case.

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Hello ATI.

I am struggling with performance with my 4070ti. The best I am able to get seems to be around 50-55 but less with FG - down into the mid-30s. Pretty bad stutters in many place. Downloaded the new Nvidia driver last night. Reverted back to DX11 and TAA (FG is not an option with DX11). Seems a little smoother but still 50-55 fps.

My specs include:

5800x3D
4070ti
MSI B550 Pro VDH MB
4k LG C2 TV 55"

I simply can’t figure out where I might be missing something in settings. Any ideas? Thank you.

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FG, by its very nature, means you get a free doubling of frames for any given CPU load. This can increase even more if you get any performance increase with DLSS 2. They are free in the sense they put no more strain on your CPU as all of the work is done on the GPU.

So for example, at a busy airport the most my i7 9700 could do would be about 45fps - that could be less depending on the dynamic aspects of the sim like weather, AI traffic etc.

FG doubles that.

Lets suppose you use DLSS 2 as well and, for arguments sake, it only gives you an extra 5 frames. You are now at 100 frames. Do you need 100 frames? Nope. You can now lock your frames at a solid 60 and, at the same time, reduce load on your CPU. This gives you room to up your GFX quality settings as well.

Does it do miracles? No. If for example I put a massive strain on my old(ish) CPU by increasing LODS to 400 then FG can’t fix that. What actually happens is the camera will start to rubber band around the cockpit when I pan - in non FG mode, overstressing your CPU will usually just result in massive stutters.

So is FG a panacea for all ills. No. Is it an amazing improvement if you use it with your sensible head on? Yes.

I bought the 4070ti at the base price (£799) and felt sick doing it as I know it is overpriced and I couldn’t really afford it to be honest. I took a punt and, for me, it worked out. It is the biggest boost I have ever had in any sim I have used over the decades.

You will always find people who will find an excuse to dismiss it, but it tends to be people who massively overpaid for their high end 30 series cards (some just before the 40 series was released) and are doubling down on their buyers remorse. FG is nothing but “marketing” after all. There were a lot of those types of comments on this forum at the time of the 40 series release.

If peeps are genuinely happy with their 30 series purchase then fair play to them. Other than the silly prices, I am not sure what the downsides of the 40 series are other than (as I say) the prices and (in the 4070ti’s case) the 12 gig vram which is probably the minimum that any modern card should be releasing with. If you are using 4k then you would probably need to look 4080 and above to be honest.

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First of all don’t use the internal sim frame counter as it doesnt count generated frames. Try Riva Tuner instead then come back and let us know what you are getting