Do expensive CPU's and GPU's pay off in VR?

User Support Hub Install, Performance & Graphics
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I’ve been struggling a long time making my VR flights working well enough.
But as maybe only one of three flights works without CTD’s, disconnects, heavy lagging etc I’m about to buy something new and expensive/top performance hardware.
My question before investing typically 4000-5000$ (or maybe less) is, does it REALLY pay off?

So you people that is sitting with typically, a RTX 4070 and a i7-13900 and 32+ memory, or something like this. How do VR flights work for you? More or less always flawless with 40+ fps or?
Please be honest!

And… I’m only interested when flying FBW A320/PMDG 737 on crafted airports. All these tutorials that works wonderful flying an Cessna or other smaller aircraft tells nothing!

Mats

My world
CPU: I7-6700
GPU: 3070TI
Int.memory: 16 Ghz
Headset: Oculus 2

What I’ve done so far

  • PC Pagefile: Checked
  • PC Removed other processes: No difference or little
  • Oculus Air link and Cable link (Original cable): Disconnects or causes CTD’s, AirLink slighty worse graphics but more trustable. Sometimes everything works and then the world is just wonderful.
  • Oculus File permission: Checked
  • PC netw speed: 5 GHZ checked
  • Steam VR : no no no
  • Oculus preferences: tried 72 and the slider in lowest performance position, yes, then everything works really smooth even though I can’t read the instruments because of the bad resolution! Went to recommended and the problems began again.
  • MSFS GSX Influence: Checked, no problems
  • MSFS Online/Offline: Checked not a problem
  • MSFS VR settings: Generally medium with terrain level of details around 100 and objects level of detail the same.
  • Limitied Add Ons in community folder to under 15 (from 200): Small changes
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I can tell you, that a new 7000 series AMD card won’t pay off in VR at the moment. I switched from 3080Ti to 7900XTX recently and lost some frames. That, while being GPU bound most of the time in VR with a 5800X. The drivers are not optimized for VR. So stay with team green for the moment, when you use it mostly for VR.
Vice versa I don’t think, that a CPU upgrade will help with these cards in VR when already GPU bound.

In 2D the step is huge though.

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Consider that in the earlier days of VR, you needed a VERY powerful workstation to make it work.
You still have to push a whole lot of data around to make many of today’s headsets work well.
Will more powerful hardware help? Absolutely.

Especially, as @SergeantXA320 mentioned, the GPU.

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The i7 6700 was a pretty good CPU in its day but really does not cut it for VR. I used have one myself with a 2080Ti for a while. Upgraded the motherboard, really so I could upgrade to a i9 10900k. That made a reasonably difference and I can now get a reasonable performance in less densely populated areas. It’s ok for built up areas but the performance is still a bit lacking.
Anyway, hope that somehow helps!

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Sorry, but your problem has nothing to do with your specs!

The issues that you said that you have in particular are general PC malfunctions and not performance related.

I was running a i7 2600 with a 1080 with a Odyssey HMD+ with zero issues of that sort for a year prior to building my new PC this month (13700k).

Sure, spending 3,4,5k will surely solve the problems…but, because you would be running a healthy PC and not so because it is a high end current PC.

I suggest you get your PC healthy.

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Out of interest could you qualify what you mean by “healthy”?

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I have a 4080 and the game still will not play as intended. People with 4090 say that is the one to get to really want to enjoy VR at its fullest in MSFS.
I have put too much money into MSFS at the moment. Maybe at the end of the year when we have more optimization, I will have a change of mind.
Good Luck to you

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yep, VRAM sure will help

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Thank you so far people.
In conclusion what you say is that the GPU do not play that big role from you experience.
I guess my 3070Ti maybe should work but my CPU needs an upgrade.

Maybe you Blitzer303 might have an interesting solution, changing the motherboard and upgrading the CPU and also the Int memory, but keeping the GPU.

Or just go crazy and get the GTX4090. I’m just so tired spending time on problems instead of relaxation.

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I think you need to be more clear if you can.
Running MSFS in 2D with really high performance works very well.
If my PC is “sick” I assume it would affect the performance more general.
But please let me know what exactly from what I’ve described as symptoms that makes you suspicious.

Mats

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My view with regards to PC specs, VR and flight sims is pretty simple to be honest. A balanced PC with as much performance you can get all round.

When I first got a VR headset I was not ready to upgrade my system, but I knew my graphics card at the time did not meet the minimum specs for the headset so that’s when I got the 2080ti. If anything I would probably benefit from replacing that now with a 4000 series card, but to be perfectly honest if I were to do that I would like to go the whole way and have a 13900 as well. It is too soon for me after my previous upgrade to justify that just yet.

I will probably make do with my current set up for now, but next time round go the more expensive route of pretty much a complete new system with a better balanced CPU/GPU combo.

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5800x3d, 32GB RAM @3600MHz upwards, RTX 4080 and you’re settled.

be future oriented and take a 7k series x3d but it will require all kind of other highest end hardware that has not yet really matured.

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I say the opposite. GPU is a big factor in VR performance. CPU less so, but there can be some scenarios where CPU performance is important.

FWIW, I run a 5800X3D and 4080 in VR with PMDG 737 at high end settings and high super sampling with DLSS. I pull 40 FPS average and most of the time am GPU bound.

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Introduction.
MSFS exhibits a very wide range of frame rate characteristics depending on the region in which the user flies, so it is quite dependent on where you normally fly.
It is not uncommon for the difference in frame rate between flying high in the countryside and low in the city to be four times or more.
Think of rural high altitude as a GPU-driven task and urban low altitude as a combined task where the CPU, CPU cache, and main memory are the primary components.
VR is sensitive to the latency of each component. In other words, VR+MSFS is a combined effort.
Anything missing will pull in the missing pieces and slow it down, and there is no option for one good component to save everything.

Your requirements.
I interpret your condition as 40fps+, perhaps with 36fps in mind, which is the internal frame generation standard by ASW for Quest 72fps.
FBW A320/PMDG 737+GSX with handmade airports and VR use are generally the heaviest conditions seen in MSFS.
There is probably no hardware on the ground yet anywhere that can achieve 40FPS+ in all conditions with VR+MSFS. I am skeptical that even the next generation of CPUs will probably be able to do it.

About the CPU
Compared to your current CPU, modern CPUs (and memory components) are high performance in every part. I think it is worth the change.
I am currently using a 7950X3D, but any Intel13/AMD7000X3D/AMD5000X3D would be fine. It’s all within your budget and taste.

About the GPU.
If you are currently on a 3080, you may not need to change anytime soon in VR.
It’s probably not too late to change the CPU first, and if it’s not powerful enough, buy one.
NVidia frame generation is very good as long as you use it on a normal monitor. It is worth considering.
However, as of now (2023/03/27), frame generation is not available for all VR frameworks. There are no plans to make it available at this time. (They are hoping to make it available, but don’t know when.)
The RTX40 series is currently just a faster GPU in VR, and although it seems to consume more power than the 30 series, it is rather power efficient during MSFS games.

Personal Opinion
I am currently using a 7950X3D+RTX4090 with GSX/FSLTL/Aiflow/Aiground/TLoD300, mostly GA aircraft and military aircraft flying low. I also fly urban and travel in the countryside.
I use a Quest2 and a toobii eye tracker 5 on a daily basis.
Compared to my previous environment of 5800X3D+3090, the stutter has been greatly reduced and the frame rate has stabilized. As long as we are flying in urban areas, we can maintain 60FPS+ when using frame generation with nonVR+Tobii.
The GPU is not at full load. So, as always, it is a limitation of the components, including the CPU.
During landing stop and a few hundred ft climb after takeoff, 40fps+.
Of course it depends on other aircraft traffic, but since it is Haneda Airport + FSLTL + TLoD300, I consider it an average heavy user environment.
(I think we can achieve 40fps+ for more than 90% of the total flight time. However, the most usability is needed during takeoff/landing glides, and only that part of the flight cannot meet 40fps+).

Another suggestion.
Tobii+RTX40 series with NVidia frame generation and VR only when you want it is another solution: less deviation from VR, minimal loss of usability and you can see your cat’s face.
That’s how I do it.

I’m happy to be of help.

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Hi

Thanks for all your very valuable info.
Your CPU and GPU is really the kind of hardware that is interesting to learn from.And also., the hardware you came from.

“The RTX40 series is currently just a faster GPU in VR, and although it seems to consume more power than the 30 series, it is rather power efficient during MSFS games.”
Thanks for that distinction. (frame generation / speed)

" However, the most usability is needed during takeoff/landing glides, and only that part of the flight cannot meet 40fps+"
OK, well to me that part is the most interesting as I’m a airliner fan. But even if the FPS goes under 40+ on e.g. dep/arr on Haneda do you still have a smooth flying experience e.g. no lagging, connection losses, CTD’s etc? One can easily become a FPS nerd and forget that it’s still a very well sufficient experience with really no annoying issues.
What preferences do you have on your Oculus device and what’s your MSFS VR Settings Obj. Level of Details and Terrain lev. of Details? And do you run Cable or Air connection to the oculus app.

Mats

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This article is full of very useful tips: Microsoft Flight Simulator Optimal VR Settings Guide (2023) - GamersByNight

In particular, the author does a great job of showing which graphics settings to boost, and which to cut. These steps really helped a lot on my setup.

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Hi

“I say the opposite. GPU is a big factor in VR performance. CPU less so, but there can be some scenarios where CPU performance is important.”

Ok, well then this make me confused as I consider my 3070Ti as a pretty good GPU.
Still VR on the lowest graphica settings on my Oculus and medium in the MSFS gives me severe problems on almost every flight

But nevertheless, you also seem to have that level of hardware that makes me curious. How is your 737 during taxi, T/O and landing on a crafted airport? A smooth and no-issues experience?

Mats

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I agree, among the best help pages that is. I’ve used it myself.

Mats

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Went from a 3080 to a 4090. Expensive but no brainer for serious VR Quality.

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We have conducted some tests.

Note
Normally we use NVidia Frameview to get statistics, but since we need to organize the data, this time we only checked the visual values on the HMD using Oculus-Debug.

Environment
Hardware: ASUS Proart X670E Creator/AMD Ryzen 7950X3D/Gigabyte RTX4090 Xtreme Waterforce/DDR5-5200-JEDEC(CL42)-32x2 /Intel Optane 905p
HMD:Oculus Quest 2/Wired(USB) with OpenXR Toolkit 1.3.0 GA3
DirectX:11(DX12 in VR is buggy in my current environment.)
MSFS:1.31.22.0(SU12 public build)
Graphics options:VR Ult all/Grass cockpit refresh rate=HIGH/TAA Supersample=100
Aircraft:FBW A32NX Experimental build(f560618) (PMDG 737 is not in my possession, so I substituted A32NX.)
Airport: Haneda Airport 34L
Add-ons: All 360GB/480 add-ons I normally use are enabled. Haneda Airport has an addon for object modification.
Add-ons that affect flight: GSXPro/FSLTL/FSRealisticPro/Aiflow/Aiground and Voicemeeter for voice mixer
Altitude: 200-500ft (for high load simulation. Passing between buildings)
Traffic: Realtime online(Airport life(50/1/50) Land and sea traffic(20/10/50))
Weather:few cloud
Time: noon (for VFR test because it is not visible at night)

Oculus settings
Rendering resolution 5408x2736 (maximum configurable)
Oculus refresh rate
Checked at 72/80/90/120, 72FPS is the smoothest due to frame time.
90/120FPS often fails to meet the ASW requirement of 45/60FPS, which is half the FPS, and hitches occur.
Although 72/80FPS may be preferred, in the case of 80FPS, there is a drop and recovery of 2.5 fps in steady state, which is not stable, so 72FPS (default) was chosen for stable measurement.
Therefore, 72FPS is set as the default for stable measurement.

TLOD is tested at 100/200/250/300/400.
TLOD100
During takeoff and runway, 36FPS is possible in all areas including V1/VR. 36FPS is maintained even when flying between buildings at 200-500ft. Rarely drops on loading, but recovers in about 1 second.
TLOD200
It drops to 31.5FPS for about 1 second only at V1/VR, but after that, 36FPS is possible in the whole area. 36FPS is maintained even when flying between buildings at 200-500ft. It rarely drops on loading, but it recovers in about 1 second.
TLOD250
It drops to about 29FPS in V1/VR for about 2 seconds, after that it is almost 36FPS, but it drops to about 29FPS on loading. It depends on the object density.
TLoD300
During V1/VR, it drops to about 24FPS. After that, it is between 27FPS-36FPS. When memory recovery (aka.GC) of objects occurs, it may drop to about 10FPS.
TLOD400
Almost always in the 20FPS range, rarely dropping to single digits.

There is no noticeable difference between the external and internal viewpoints visually, so we omit it.

Conclusion
Under the above conditions, I think it is safe to say that 36 FPS can be maintained even with all VR options enabled, generally up to TLOD200-250.
APP Photon-to-Motion delay is 65-70ms in all regions, 45ms when lightweight, and momentarily exceeds 100ms when a hitch occurs, but it recovers quickly except for TLOD400.
At 72FPS, one frame is 1000/72=13.9ms, which is stable at about 4-5 frames delay.

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