Does Microsoft even care about its flightsim userbase?

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I’m fortunate enough that the Flight sim expo is in town. I was able to talk with a decent number of high level hardware designers showing their products. We ended up getting around to the issues with MSFS2020/24 (they even got a chuckle out the of G1000 tachometer going negative).

The consensus is Microsoft may not fully understand whats going on, and hides behind half truths to protect it’s reputation. I’ve been flying MSFS2020 since early on, but seeing developers of X-Plane running seminars on aircraft modelling, airport design and blender at the expo speaks volume. Even Austin Meyer was running one of the seminars (and was running an dj event afterwards). Where was Microsoft representation?

Microsoft, listen to your userbase. It’s ok to make a mistake. Own up, accept constructive criticism and work with it.

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Personal Comments and Observations

I’m on volunteer staff and I’m also a part-time employee at one of the Dev Partners who built aircraft for the 2024 launch.

To be fair, what would have been the perception had MS sent a contingent to FS Expo when it’s all hands on deck (and trust me, it is) on two betas simultaneously?

Folks who know my posting history know that I call a duck a duck when it’s time, and i have constructively criticized the sim and it’s framework when the moment was appropriate and justified. But in this case, it’s a lose-lose proposition - if MS didn’t show up, people complain. If they did show up, people complain.

Better to keep doing the good work and let people complain. The product and outcomes will speak volumes later on.

BTW, I was at the show too today. Honestly I was underwhelmed - it seemed more like a hardware show than anything else.

A lot of good folks were there, and I was glad to finally make the acquaintance of Developers and Firms who I had virtually met over the years since 2020 launch. None of them (and one of them was a Diamond sponsor) ever said that MS was deliberately obfuscating. We’ve had a lot of candid conversations about the sim and it’s framework, consistency and sustainability in the past, but everyone knows that without the sim, they’ll be worse off.

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There’s frustration;

Having real-world experience flying, I want to be able to practice those skill sets when the weather is trash (which for the most part, has been for the past 4 months on Sat here in New England).

Having a respectable setup (VR headset, G1000s, and the Honeycomb suite), the exception is “I’ll be able to use all of my equipment natively”.

The reality is. the G1000 displays don’t refresh while in VR Mode; there’s an immersion disconnect. If squawk reset is required the expection is, look at the PFD, check the softkeys and update. The reality; divert between looking through the VR headset, remembering what menu you’re in, looking down (in reallife, losing immersion) or mentally tracking where your fingers are and hope you didn’t key something in wrong.

Considering how Xplane (during the presentation yesterday) stated that the weather radar is just a different shader of clouds, from a computational standpoint, it shouldn’t be that computationally complex to allow a multi display option (at least for a PFD/MFD).

There’s apathy and frustration; you bring forth a rational issues (either real life phyics based, or how the model renders it), and the devs don’t even respond.

I will agree the expo does feel like a tech expo, (though the bernoulli ai model does show some promise, the shirley ai did feel a bit disjointed).

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The Devs are very much active, on the DevSupport forum. They’re doing their outreach and communication - to those same hardware and software Third Parties that were at the show. They’re doing what they do - and efficiently. Answering question about the sim that is interaction and gameplay isn’t their job, nor is it the best use of their time. They’re both developing/innovating the sim, and listening and assisting the Third Parties who complement the sim.

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Not sure if you are aware but Jorg said they would not be attending the Expo this year because continued work on the sim is more important.

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They were busy fixing up the sim that people constantly complain about.

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It doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t understand whats going on, it means they’re absolutely swamped trying to solve super tough problems that no one else has quite figured out yet. You have to remember MS/Asobo is trying to build a perfect copy of the Entire Earth and then stream it to you, all while pushing the envelope of what’s even possible in a flight simulator. As good as X-plane is, MSFS 2024 is on an entirely different scale.

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I think it is a perception thing. Perception is not reality to me, but unfortunately it is to many.

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I have the misfortune of using the flight simulator in a field that is not everyone’s thing:
GLIDING.

I have already written a lot about having patience even if you don’t get any feedback.
If I wasn’t a very long time supporter of MSFS, I would have left long ago.
I’ve never put as much time into a cause as I do here on the forum to promote improvement.
But I find it increasingly difficult not only to point out mistakes, but also not to criticise the organisation (I won’t give any examples here).

Do I feel neglected: YES, definitely.

Why: because nothing has been done FOR YEARS about some things that are functionally easy to fix.

I experience it in my own life: if I don’t solve my problems, I can’t dedicate myself to new tasks. Otherwise the old problems get bigger and new ones are added. That brings everyone down sooner or later.

Yes, many things are possible today, but everything in order.

I hate it in myself when I get frustrated when I’m writing here, which usually do in the flow of my thoughts.

I don’t really want that because then I have to spend time staying objective. But I can’t switch off my feelings.

As time goes on, I have to force myself to be more and more patient in some things.

And then it comes to questions like this one here, which are being asked more and more often in the forum.

Criticism is always good if it is constructive.
Speculation and negative thoughts only come when a certain level of trust has been exceeded.

What would help would be if there were good technical explanations at short intervals that would explain things in a targeted way. That’s been done well before.
Please don’t tell me only about new efforts in the Dev-Streams, while the old problems are not fixed.

Negative feelings have nothing to do with intelligence.

Being listened to and having things explained helps to counter negative feelings and significantly improve situations.

Take the step to basically explain the problems of the developers and where they are, with the remark to do this cathegorically more often and I can breathe a sigh of relief again because I see goals to solve problems.

And the FS-World looks much happier! :slight_smile:

Kind regards
Ralf

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It’s not about the product, it’s about showing respect to the community and engaging with them.

By all accounts, X-Plane have major limitations with their product - the scenery etc. The difference is they’re aware of the problems, they’re communicating and being open about it, they have a roadmap for dealing with it - and they’re still at FSExpo advocating for not only themselves, but for the community that earns them a living at the biggest show of the year.

It would have cost next to nothing for Microsoft/Asobo to send some guys across to expo - and there are plenty of employee who do not write the code, so it’s a curious take you have there to suggest that they didn’t attend because they’re working on the software. Especially given France’s labour laws: Working Hours in France | Boundless EOR

Massive W for X-Plane
Massive L for Asobo/Microsoft

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Some things may indeed be easy to fix, but I suspect many aren’t. It could be changes need to be made all over the place to fix or add some small feature that in reality isn’t small in what it takes to implement.

From a user perspective each little thing seems easy, but we don’t have eyes on the actual code. This was in part why 2024 was even justified - to better go multithreaded took major rewrites. It’s possibly why there are so many bugs to be chased down. Make big changes to code and you can find all sorts of things that need to be fixed along the way. The old FS code was indeed old and who knows what state it was in when Asobo got it handed to them.

It’s a trap to assume something that seems easy or insignificant actually is without knowing the code. It may not be as easy as many may think.

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At the point in time where MS is (reportedly) about to make another batch of employee lay-offs in their gaming departments, mainly Xbox, perhaps holding back on the marketing budget is a wise choice
It does follow on their questionable approach to the 2024 devs (World Hub when, better way to import 2020 liveries onto 2024 models when, better plane modability when), but it’s kind of understandable corpo-wise

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Sending the Dev Team there makes no sense - again, they’re the folks who live the sim code and the framework.

Jorg made the decision to not attend in light of moving both Betas forward to RTM.

Your comment is exactly what I was talking about - send someone, don’t send someone - complaints result.

How is anyone being disrespected because they didn’t attend a convention? I’d argue there would be disrespect if they chose to stop working on both sims despite a convention.

And ask yourself this - Austin holding a development class - maybe, just maybe it’s because there’s not enough developers who understand the XPlane development framework such that he has to hold such lectures in order to get a wider or deeper market penetration?

Yet every viable Third Party who was part of the 2020 ecosystem and had skin in the game couldn’t wait to get their hands on the 2024 SDK once it passed out of Alpha and made it into the wider circle beyond the Dev Partners? You probably don’t know - but I do - I was there listening to the clamoring from well-known studios asking when the SDK would be released. A true “Release The Hounds” moment if there was one.

Some folks misinterpret events without looking at the wider picture. MS doesn’t have to work the same way Austin does. They have a developer base that’s growing by the week and month. They don’t have to perform reachouts. And being part of a Dev Partner studio, I personally can say with much certainty I’d rather Asobo and Working Title continue to expand the SDK and the related documentation so all of us who build on the sim can create and innovate ever more, rather than attend a con.

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But it is nice hardware though, I’m excited to see that many hardware allready made and developed. The WinWing lineup is very nice.. (not affiliated with them in any way) On the software side, I dont know. hopefully next year things will be better.

I dont think MS/Asobo is obfuscating, I do think there is just too much on the list they need to fix before doing ‘fun stuff’ like events. I’m sure some are working today to fix the last two patches. No idea what the deadline is but I guess soon.

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It’s not about who did what at the convention and the reasons why, it’s about them being there representing themselves and their position in the hobby. They’re THE biggest player in the entire industry - all these people showcasing at the expo are dependent on the platforms for their livelihoods. It’s almost a given that Asobo should be there just to show support in these difficult times (financial, and platform stability).

Microsoft/Asobo seem to have forgotten about the people who pay their bills. What you’ve said in your last paragraph suggests that MS/Asobo take their position for granted.

Taking a weekend off to say “hi, we’re here” regardless of the state of the sim, and supporting the Expo which is trying to make the simulation space more accessible to more people by promoting its virtues would have been the right thing to do.

Unless of course this “extra work” they’re doing is going to magically result in a bug-free simulator on Monday morning?

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I doubt I’ll ever understand why people feel someone standing up on a stage will help get software working faster. When you add travel time, the disruptions to work, having to reacquaint yourself with whatever you were working on before, etc, you lose a full week or more.

So they “represent”? What does that get you? If you want devs there when the user base wants CTDs fixed, all I can ask is why?

In normal times, when things aren’t so pressing, sure. Let the devs talk about this or that or whatever. Right now it seems the topic is CTDs which many are complaining (rightfully) keep them from flying.

So fixing CTDs vs standing on stage so people can watch them “represent”? I’ll take fixing the bugs every time. I don’t need to see them.

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Um… the devs could still be at home cooking while a PR / Marketing team represent them :joy:

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You can’t convince me that everyone in the company is a code monkey. There must be managers at upper levels who never write a line of code who could have easily taken a couple of days to attend. It would have no impact upon the fix schedule.

This is just indicative of the lack of communication that has plagued 2024 since release. If the sour attitude of the user community is the reason for their absence, this certainly isn’t going to improve the situation.

When people lack information about what is going on, the tendency is to assume the worst. MS doesn’t seem to realize if they’d simply be more forthcoming about what problems they recognize and what is being done to fix them, most folks would settle down and be more understanding.

It’s the lack of information that frustrates us more than anything else. So we continue screaming into the void, hoping someone somewhere hears us and responds.

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Pretty heavy accusation? And wonder about the statement that “the consensus is” – my opinion as more of a computer guy than an aviation guy :nerd_face: Also, about them not being “represented” at the FSExpo, a booth or a presentation? - they are massively represented online, especially on this forum and the live developer conferences, and on many other forums, not sure that being at FSExpo really accomplishes anything, also why have to answer the same questions (many of which are negative) from individuals that have been answered over and over again online ? Homo sapiens in general - much easier to talk about “what is not there” vs “what is there” and “should’s” and most of these comments are just projections. Really, they don’t owe you/us anything other than what they are already doing - and there’s abundant proof that they are doing it. My more unusual (Buddhist-type) opinion is that MSFS is a gigantic science experiment - engineering artistic creativity endeavor with a very large team continuously transforming it in a positive direction. Oh yea, all this stuff about it “not being ready” - many of the problems would clearly not become apparent until it was released into use for much larger numbers of people (regardless of “betas”), given huge diversity in conditions, use, and equipment. It’s a prototype and will always be one. PS - 3 weeks after the “abyssmal rollout”, I no longer thought it was so (after mucho tweaking on my 4 year old equipment).

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Just because they didn’t go to a convention?

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