I read that a majority or at least a large subset of Xbox users are dissatisfied with problems of stability or other. I’m not sensing this from PC users, but what about Xbox (latest model), is it working well enough for these users, now here in Nov 2023, where you can feel okay about recommending it to new users on Xbox?
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Hello there,
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I don’t want to diminish X-box players. After all, they were told that the sim would function on their platforms. But I see no way a console with 16mb memory, a limited processor and gpu can perform as well as a $3000 (or more) computer. Some of the newer graphics cards cost as much or more than an X-box.
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I don’t think anyone expects a USD $499 console to perform as well as a $3000+ ultra high-end gaming PC, but no reasonable person would make that comparison. An Xbox Series X is capable of running Microsoft Flight Simulator at comparable performance and graphics quality to a mid-range gaming PC, and it does so at a significantly lower cost of entry.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of PC players are not running super deluxe computers with the latest and greatest CPUs and GPUs. Take a look at the latest Steam Hardware Survey numbers published by Valve to see what hardware most PC players are actually using. As of this writing, the vast majority of PC gamers have hardware that is comparable – or even lower-spec – to an Xbox Series X. Fewer than 6.5% of players have a PC with an RTX 4000-series GPU, and only 1.2% of players have a high-end 4080 or 4090 card.
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Thanks for that. I guess a key is Xbox Series X users will need to dial back some settings versus those 6.5% users might have setup. How about stability per se–is it reasonably problem/trouble-free, provided the user configures settings per their hardware’s capabilities?
The vanilla experience is pretty stable now, I’d say. More stable than it was 18 months ago, that’s for sure.
That said, the sim on console is still very unreliable with 3rd party addons from the marketplace. Black screens and CTDs are unfortunately still all too common with many add-on aircraft and airports. Overall it’s very hit and miss; sometimes the experience is great, other times it’s black screens galore.
@UnitedArt and @JakTrax78 cover this experience well in their contributions and reviews in case you want to take a look at their posts.
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Although I don’t have a gaming PC I have managed to directly compare the sim on Xbox Series X to what can be considered a mid-range PC. The person whose PC it was was so impressed, he’s considering switching to console for ease of use — so I’d say the Xbox Series X experience is actually more equivalent to a PC in the very upper end of the mid-range.
The custom AMD GPU of the Xbox has been evaluated at being somewhere between an RTX3060 and 4080, which puts it firmly among the higher-end section of mid-range gaming PCs. Now, it’s important to note that the 4080 comparison is really only valid due to the Series X’s 4K capability.
So far, so good. But where it goes wrong for Series X is in the shared processing memory, which is distributed between CPU and GPU. The CPU typically gets assigned 6gb, while the GPU receives 10gb. This of course varies depending on which needs what at any given time.
So no, you can’t compare a top-spec gaming PC to a Series X when running MSFS, because the comparison is totally unfair. For a start, Xbox isn’t claiming to trump a top gaming PC. Secondly, the console is aimed at a different market, which doesn’t typically get too involved in serious simulations of this nature. Thirdly, consoles are closed systems by design, so the tech of three years ago is still the tech you’re getting now. PC users enjoy incremental upgrades to keep with the times — an option console users are not afforded.
Pound-for-pound, the Xbox is undeniably the winner — it runs the sim and many add-ons flawlessly (although you do have to exercise care when selecting/buying third-party content), for about a sixth of the price of a high-end gaming PC. In other words, it punches well above its weight category and CAN in many respects go toe-to-toe with the majority of gaming PCs.
But no console can compete with that top 25% of gaming PCs. Nor should they be expected to. I’ve only seen video of the top gaming PCs in action with MSFS and, visually, there’s not that great a difference. But it’s what’s going on under the hood that matters and those top-end gaming PCs are offering unrivalled stability and fantastic performance with even the most detailed and demanding airports. Ask any Xbox simmer how IniBuilds’ KJFK is and they’ll tell you it’s largely unusable. And while the majority of PC users might agree, those with the latest and greatest CPU/GPUs will confirm that they’re not struggling to run it.
There’s the difference right there: the fewer add-ons you have, the more similar the comparison between the two. The more add-ons you have, the wider and more significant the gap gets.
Sim Update 13 improved things considerably (for me anyway), and third-party devs have recently realised it’s well worth optimising their products for the console market. I was looking into a top-spec gaming PC recently but have curtailed the idea because I’m actually satisfied with how well the Series X performs. I can live with the shortcomings but chiefly because my main hobby (also aviation-related) is more important to me than MSFS. If MSFS were my primary hobby I would be getting a gaming PC next year — but I’d advise anyone considering making the switch to at least wait until FS2024 is released — FS2024 has been developed with Xbox in mind so many of the issues surrounding the current iteration SHOULD be addressed next year.
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MSFS on Series X is tons of carefree fun in a compact package. Add on stuff to your hearts content to make it as complex and fussy as you wish, but one can always dial it back to just right, just like in the fairy tail. Sit in front of as large a TV as you can fit or afford and the world explodes in visual delight. Better still if Freesync enabled! Never going back to PC for MSFS, too many maintenance hassles, I’d rather be flying!
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You touch on an important point here, and that is maintenance hassles. I’m actually quite techniallly minded but with software and computer processes I’m useless — community folders and file extensions confuse the heck out of me and so I’m far happier just plugging in and and playing.
It doesn’t matter how easy it might be to learn about them, I’ve little intention when I can just fire up the console and start flying in seconds.
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Everything is a bell curve. The best thing about this sim is the amount of options available that determine CPU and GPU utilization. It’s not perfect (primitive multi-core, multithreading) but the options available allow nearly everyone, with almost any budget, to enjoy flying their virtual planes.
The biggest problem I see is that too many expect performance and visual fidelity from systems on the low side of the curve to be equivalent to those on the high side of the curve.
Stability is another thing altogether. Xbox users should expect zero CTD’s, since their hardware is what it is. Some PC users can expect problems with their custom hardware and software configurations. It’s a burden we bear. But a well-tuned PC with high-end hardware and the right software tweaks can result in a superior experience.
Options are good. Expectations must be managed. And blame must be assigned properly when things don’t go as planned.
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I personally am beginning to consider the current MSFS a beta on Xbox — a precursor to MS2024 to test console viability — and overall I think they did a pretty good job, since I appreciate the challenges involved in getting what’s ostensibly a PC-only simulator onto a machine like Xbox.
But the console experience won’t be improved in this iteration. FS2024 being marketed as an Xbox ‘game’ should mean advancements in almost every area, and increased provision for third-party add-ons.
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In before you are chastised for referring to Xbox users as ‘gamers,’ and suggesting that Microsobo is changing their focus from giving us a ‘simulator’ to giving us a ‘game.’
The current consoles are Incredibly powerful, there’s no argument over what they can achieve - they have pushed and in many areas exceeded many of the PCs that people use - this is not hyperbole, it is fact. The argument that Series X is somehow inferior to PC for flight simming in any way is totally redundant - one only needs to see what has been achieved on the Xbox in the motorsport field, with the recently released Forza Motorsport to understand it is miles ahead of the MS/Asobo attempt here; yes they are different, but not inherently so and you can find more than enough space where the sim community overlap.
I really struggle to see a problem with the Series X, when the plethora of quite outstanding experiences stands on its own, often creating visuals on a level never seen. It is less about the hardware and more the development of the flight sim application on console and getting that down to the best it can be, which for whatever reason is taking far too long to accomplish.
I hope the next Flight Sim iteration is a significant improvement.
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Indeed. Let’s hope the advancements in programming and development lead to a better experience on console with FS2024. To be honest, after the hype, I fail to see how they can possibly deliver a product suffering the same fundamental flaws as the current MSFS.
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MSFS is, in a literal sense, a video game. That’s true regardless of platform. Whether Xbox users tend to be interested in a more arcade-like experience and somehow end up harming PC users is a totally separate (and incorrect) claim that Jak didn’t make there.
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Interesting and overall much more positive testimony than I expected. Perhaps some will pop in with the horror stories presented on a thread at Avsim, re MSFS in general and Xbox in particular.
Thanks everybody and will continue to monitor.
I agree that the current consoles, including the Series X, boast impressive capabilities, often outperforming many PCs. While the discussion regarding the Series X’s suitability for flight simulation may seem redundant, I share the anticipation for further progress. The development of the flight simulation application on the console is undoubtedly a crucial factor that demands attention. Also, I’m intrigued by the possibility of VR support, even though I’m unsure of the console’s full capability in this aspect. Heard rumors about Meta and Microsoft, but no output. It would be fascinating to explore the integration of Xbox with reality simulation. Has anyone had the chance to try this out yet?
I got my Series X specifically for this game and have since ended up buying a bunch of other stuff (stick, yoke(s), rudders, autopilot panel, more planes than I’d like to admit, etc.) and still play it every day. Aside from a pretty ugly period during sim update 11 when there was a LOD bug, I’ve been enjoying the performance without issue. Even now, over 500 hours in, I’m still taken aback sometimes by the views. Pretty good value for a $500 machine, I’d say.
I think if you try to run a bunch of scenery add-ons the performance can suffer. But I have all the updates and a bunch of complex airplane add-ons and have not noticed any performance degradation at 4K. Early reports out of the SU 14 beta are very positive as well.
The only thing that would keep me from wholeheartedly recommending XBOX as a platform for flight simming is if you want to do more advanced things like VATSIM, head tracking, career add-ons, mix and match peripherals, and stuff like that. If all you want is to simulate flight itself (including all the procedures) and enjoy the views I’d say it’s actually amazing that you can do it all for less than the price of a graphics card for a PC. For me personally head tracking is the only thing I’d want a PC for and it’s not worth $2500 to me.
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We do not know how many Xbox users there are, nor what % of them have had any issues, much less long-standing issues. All we have is what is likely a statistically irrelevant number of users complaining on various forums. The same thing can be said for the PC users. I am sure Asobo and MS have those numbers but I also am sure they are not going to share them.
That said I know several people that play on both the Series S and X as well as one who plays on the Xbox One via cloud gaming. They all have overall good experiences.
The Head of Xbox said in an interview back in June that they do not believe there is enough of an audience to make VR/AR viable for them. This has been their stance for years now. Here is the interview if you are interested in reading it. Xbox Game Studios' Matt Booty on Hollywood's Video Games Renaissance
The rumor about Meta and Xbox is simply the announcement that Game Pass games will be playable on Meta headsets via cloud streaming, the games themselves will not be VR they will be presented like a movie currently is in VR in a flat-screen format.
I mean, obviously forum feedback only comes from a minority of users, but they do usually reflect overall performance and issues on both platforms. Otherwise there would be little value in Beta testing or any other feedback from the forums.
it’s very unlikely, for example, that black screen and CTD issues on console are an anomaly confined to forum complaints. Instead, many people who experience them just move on instead of complaining on a forum.
Where forum feedback isn’t as reflective comes from preferences on sim direction and other more subjective opinions, which likely suffers from strong selection effects (people who opt into forum participation are different from those who do not).