Hi everyone. I bought a new laptop with a rtx 4070 gpu. But unfortunately I have some visual issues when I turn the frame generation on. I have some flickers when I pan the camera while its in outside view, flickers are on the plane’s rudder, wingtips and nose of the plane as seen on the video. All the drivers are updated. Can you help me about this issue? Thanks.
Recently upgraded to a 4070 myself and noticed the same. Ended up turning it off after a few days…
Naturally fps drops a lot when I turn it off. After all, when there is such a feature, we should be able to use it without any problems. Turning it off doesn’t make sense to me.
What is your screen refresh MHz?
its 144 hz
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This will happen, even at high fps. I have a 4090 and I also see that. Frames that don’t exist will be created by AI. You will specially notice them in fast moving images like the cam panning. However on slow moving images (world moving below plane without cam panning) you will not notice that. AI is not as smart as human eye but we may still need AI to run this game.
Cheers
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does that mean there is no solution for this issue?
Pretty much, yes. I also have a 4090. But of my 80is frames about 50% are interpolated. So that’s quite natural. Same in VR with motion reprojection
Then again, I never had it that noticeable. Maybe because it has to work harder in the 4070 than in my 4090?
Unfortunatelly there’ no solution for this other that getting the highest fps you can achieve so that the fps are above or close to the rate at which moving image is changing as well, because that makes interpolation between 2 consecutive frames more precise. That’s why slow moving images are less likely to reproduce the artifacts when running at high fps because their change rate is much lower than fps figure.
This is how frame generation works, at least currently. This doesn’t mean it’s not going to improve in the future but while non-existing frames are created there’s always a chance that artifacts appear. You can’t tune the setting (it’s either on or off) so there’s no way to lever the amount of artificial frames for instance.
Cheers
Same here. With 60 cap in NVCP. I’ve never noticed such a strong artefact though. Maybe as it’s high contrast (pure white) it struggles more.
What I usually have and doesn’t really bother me but is the most noticeable thing, is the top of the aircraft panel (at bottom edge of window to outside view) gets ghosting if you are changing pitch (nose down) fast, so the panel ends up where sky was on the previous frame. And also moving traffic cars when they are quite far away (thus small) have a trail where it moves a lot per frame on the road below. Often with white cars is worst so again it’s a contrast thing I suppose.
Benefit of FG outweighs those issues for me.
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That’s just a downside of Frame Generation (FG) I’m afraid.
There should be less artifacts the slower your view is changing and the higher your non-FG FPS is because there is less difference between each frame, so when the artificial frame is generated there will be less ‘guesswork’ for the GPU to put it in-between the two real frames.
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@Speed1994 is spot on. I own a 4090 and that is normal behavior when using Frame Generation. Pan your view slower and the “flickering” will disappear.
EDIT: “normal behavior” = due to interpolation. I was not implying that camera rotation is causing the flickering but reducing panning speed will reduce “flickering” if you are experiencing it.
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The problem is not really the camera rotation speed but that several factors are changing at the same time, caused by camera rotation, aircraft speed/movement, light and even current fps figure. Assuming aircraft if just flying levered and following a given heading we will still have the following factors when we simply rotate camera:
- aircraft displayed angle (relative to camera position)
- moving scenery displayed on the background (relative to aircraft and camera positions)
- moving sky or clouds displayed on the background (relative to aircraft and camera positions)
- aircraft displayed shadows (relative to aircraft, sun and camera positions)
- aircraft displayed reflections (relative to aircraft, sun and camera positions)
- variable fps → affects the accuracy for determining pixel position changes
Two consecutive frames will still have differences so the generated frame in between can´t be anything else than an average of the two frames. When fps changes you will additionally notice a small ghosting because averaged frames (generated by AI) will have changing precision as well. Basically the lower the fps the less frequently you can read a given pixel position change during 1 second (for instance one pixel on the tip of the tail), while the higher the fps the more frequently you can read it. So lower fps provide less interpolation points and higher fps provide more interpolation points for each pixel position in the overall image, so to speak. When trying to connect all those interpolation points you will have as a result a less or a more accurate image representation.
But what if pixel position changed and also color changed from white to black? Is that really a grey what I should display or should it be more white or more black? You don´t have data, so again you can only average the color or maybe predict which it should be based on the previous color evolution the pixel had in let´s say 5 frames behind the current. And what if you have just a few interpolation points due to low fps and they have also changed a lot in position and color because it’s a fast moving image?
It´s not easy to solve. The natural solution would be to generate even more frames in between, but how accurate would they be then if they are based on frames which were already averaged before? Let´s see what future brings. It seems Nvidia is anyway pointing to AI as the main solution for next gen cards.
Cheers
I guess the best solution is to turn it off and reduce the graphics settings so that you can still get playable FPS without the flicker.
To me this seems to be working what it’s designed for. Low FPS would generate the frames in between and slot it in between and there’s a lag that comes with it since the AI needs to know what the next frame is, wait to generate the frame, then slot in the middle, by that time you would already be trying to move to a different position. Creating the flicker.
On higher FPS, this may be less noticeable because the gap between the time for each frame is more narrow therefore the frame generation can slot in without you noticing. But on low FPS, there’s more gap in between frames so it’s more noticeable that there’s “something” slotted in the middle of it that’s slightly wonky.
One of the reasons why when I read the feature overview about AI frame generation, is that I already sceptical to begin with, and this is just the proof of my scepticism. Going forward, graphics processing should just focus on optimisation and efficiency so that frames are rendered with less resources needed and less noticeable difference in quality. Frame generation is not one of them that I’m a fan of.
Btw I only have this issue with msfs, not any other games which support FG.
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You’re only getting 40-50FPS in your video with FG on. That probably means the game is rendering at 20-30 FPS natively. That’s very low and just isn’t enough for FG to work flawlessly. It needs more information to be able to interpolate. In other games you’re likely getting much higher FPS as a baseline.
NVIDIA recommends that FG only be used when your base framerate (without FG turned on) is 60fps or higher. It’s really intended to make 60+ fps smooth out into 90+ fps.
Agreed, 20-25 natively in fact!
I expect there would be quite a dramatic improvement by going to 30-40 natively/60-80 with Frame Generation.
@chatnyurur if you want to get less artifacts while keeping frame generation on, I’d highly recommend tweaking your settings to get this FPS increase!
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Good point. I spent unholy amounts of time trying out various combinations and settled on 60 cap (so 30 from FS) as when I tried 80 cap it was mostly fine but less consistent - meaning in New York or other similarly dense modelled areas (Venice) it struggled. Much much better at 60 cap and if the artefacts are the main side effect I can live with it.
Those extra 20 frames definitely can be felt though. Wish I could but I prefer to know I can just leave the settings and it will work with any plane anywhere.
Although, I’ve since added FSLTL to try it and BOOM, back to struggling lol. This sim is a constant battle!! I really hope 2024 has more headroom!! 
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This quote is from the FSEXPO2023 presentation:
So in short, it will! 
I like to think it will improve performance by a good amount too because the two most CPU intensive aspects of MSFS are Aerodynamics/Physics calculaton and TLoD/OLoD.
Praying. People will still find stuff to complain about though so don’t worry 
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