Sure it does. If for no other reason, eventually old stuff, especially 20 year old electronic parts, break. Sometimes fixable, sometimes not, but they won’t last forever. And I have no problem with replacing old, broken equipment. You don’t really have a choice at some point.
As for force feedback in general, all I can do is reiterate what I already said. I want it, I want it yesterday, and it’s an absolute must that it includes being able to feel the trim force going away, just as you do in a real airplane. That’s how you know when you are properly trimmed in the first place, and the lack of that is why it’s so difficult to get an airplane, especially a GA one, properly trimmed in the first place. I usually rely on the autopilot to do it for me, but that’s not “cheating” because that’s how a real life autopilot works. But I’d like to be able to do it myself, without having to rely on the autopilot to do it for me, and as things exist right now, it’s just a guessing game, combined with a dash of luck that lets you get it done.
I used to own a Sidewinder that I purchased specifically for the force feedback, thinking/expecting/hoping it would work on the trim forces that I’ve been a broken record about during this thread. Sadly, it didn’t. I was also extremely disappointed with the “throttle quadrant” on the device. When MSFS first came out last year, I expected to find it in a box somewhere in the garage, but it wasn’t there. But even if it was, based on what I’ve heard here, it still wouldn’t work for the trim stuff.
I tend to agree that the throttle control is pretty useless, which is why I don’t use it. I built my own: vastly better.
The trim forces work just fine most of the time: you can trim the forces away properly if you use XPForce. Just occasionally, they don’t. I suspect this is an XPForce issue, because it works consistently with other AirForce or other software, but none of them seem to quite get the other forces and vibrations.
I suspect that Asobo could put more facilities into the API to support FFB if they could be bothered, but understandably commercial imperatives get precedence. After Xbox/DX12 is out and debugged, perhaps…
XPForce does generally work to let you trim correctly when hand flying. It occasionally breaks but not often.
It gets really messed up if you use AP though. I think that is a sim issue not supporting FFB properly though. One of the reasons for the thread. The issues with trim are no tthe hardware or addons like XPForce it is poor implementation by the game itself.
@SummaryBloom472 that would be nice. And if it happens, I will run out and buy a force feedback stick or yoke ASAP. Or maybe my company will start selling them. Although it may be a bit wise to wait a period of time for designers of all stripes to come out with new stuff specifically designed to take advantage of that capability, should Asobo add it. And I hope they do, I get tired of properly trimming a GA airplane either being pretty much guesswork, or a task I leave to the autopilot.
I had 2 versions of the Sidewinder FFB and then went to the Logitech G940, which I still use happily today. Trim forces are superb with XPF as is much else, though trimming on the approach with Autopilot on is a no no. Without force feedback, I would have to ask whether I would be using MSFS at all. It is that critical. But, after twenty or so years of FFB, I would say that, wouldn’t I? It does make a massive difference.
feel the aerodynamic forces on smaller airplanes (and the lack of forces due to lack of air flow)
feel when there is a stuck or broken control line between stick and control surface.
feel the hydraulic dampening forces on bigger airplanes.
feel the spring loaded forces on FBW control systems.
feel the hydraulic failure with stronger forces to actuations.
feel the autopilot servos locking control stick down.
feel the force needed to disconnect the autopilot.
see the yoke moving due to the autopilot servos.
feel the centring when trimming.
feel the vibrations induced by airframe to the stick.
etc…
This short list is already adding a lot of realism and requires very little things to be a reality:
use the Microsoft API which is meant to controlling forces.
use the force effect (per this API) to reflect the simulated forces on the stick.
build the force effect using control surface forces (already computed internally for the flight model)
build the force effect using hydraulic pressure forces when relevant.
alter the force effect due to autopilot servos state, hydraulics state.
add a few force effects due to airframe vibrations of some sort.
NB: The code for most of this is most likely already in Microsoft Flight Simulator X code base (from which FS2020 derives), and most certainly in Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2 (this one was the reason I initially purchased the SWFFB2 by the way).
LOL, fighting with the autopilot in any way, at any time is a bad idea. You will always lose. Either let George fly the plane, or turn him off.
But the fact that what I want to do is doable is good news to me, but the sidewinder was such an awful stick aside from having FF, I might just have to wait for Asobo to get with it and add the proper code so other players will start making FF controls that don’t otherwise suck! This is a personal opinion, if you disagree and think they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, that’s completely OK.
I mentioned that purely for info. On the Islander, which seems to be all that I fly these days, trim is about the only way to get the speed off on approach, but I always fly a visual on runway sighting, as I am sure that many others do. It is an academic point, when flying the Islander
I still have a Microsoft Force Feedback Sidewinder 2, and it’s in fantastic condition as I looked after it, and then I stopped using it for my X55 and yokes etc. But I would love for Asobo to enable use of it again.
I think they had a 386 CPU in them, at the time I was amazed by that as my first 2nd hand PC only had a 286 chip.
MFFS2, along with most CH Products, were built very tough with strict adherence to the USB standard. Generally, these devices are plug-n-play for later versions of Windows. I just plugged in my 20 year old peripherals and generally, they worked perfectly, the only hiccups were in calibration (MS driver treats throttle quadrant like it’s a joystick) and where interfaces were specifically not included (force feedback).
This means there is absolutely no reason to go purchase something “better”. Adding FF support is trivial considering every other version of MSFS supported it (DirectInput morphed into something, I forget what). Of course, we didn’t get the helis and a few other things from FSX, either. The decision to support FF is in the hands of MS/Asobo.
Im using a speedlink black widow sl 6640 & in previous edition of Flight simulator it used to vibrate with turbulence etc.
I’m not sure if the vibration of the joystick is broken or if it is simply because force feedback isnt supported in FS2020. I kind of miss it from previous edition of Flightsim.Been looking for an hour for driver fixes or some force feedback program.Had no clue what was wrong & never heard of force feedback… I’d love my joystick to vibrate again .my joystick is working fine for the rest. But it was immersive to feel the vibration with turbulence etc It was a nice extra flight stimulator
XBox controllers have a vibrator/shaker for effects. That is different.
The Xbox does not control the force on the ministick it just vibrates.
Misunderstandings about the difference are the reasons for misinformed posts like “who need Force Feedback it just rattle when you hit a bump” where as the real reason for it is things like stick forces reducing near stall, the stick flopping under elevator weight when parked and the stick moving to a new position when you trim. The current Xbox controller does none of that it just rattles.
Of course there is nothing stopping a new enhanced XBox controller giving actual FFB but currently you only get rattle and shake.
.my joystick is working fine for the rest. But it was immersive to feel the vibration with turbulence etc It was a nice extra flight stimulator