If you still have FS2020 installed and have the auto-start FS2020 option activated in XPForce, you provably want to deactivate this option first (right click on the XPForce icon in the system tray and then uncheck the auto-start option). From then on, you just need to make sure that FS2020 is not running, and make sure that you launch XPForce before you start FS2024. XPForce will show its „loading screen“ instruction you to launch FS2020. You can then start FS2024 instead and it should recognise the new simulator instead.
PS: In the mean time I‘ve uninstalled FS2020 and with the autostart-option enabled, XPForce seems to try to launch FS2020 via Steam which returns an error message (probably because I had FS2020 installed via the Microsoft Store and it‘s not in my Steam-Library). This can simply be ignored (and Steam closed if you have it installed in the first place).
I agree. I want to highlight why proper force feedback needs to be implemented in the base sim using the following scenario:
You are flying straight an level at 2000 ft and at 80 knots. You then increase the engine power to speed up to 100 knots but want to maintain altitude.
In real life, you would have to gradually push the stick/yoke forward to compensate for the additional lift that the wing is producing due to the increased airflow. You would the use the elevator trim to remove the forward force you have to apply to the stick/yoke. Which means that the stick/yoke will remain where it is as you trim the aircraft because you are just eliminating the force you need to keep it there.
If you are using a „normal“ spring centred joystick in a simulator, you (or more accurately, the developers of that sim) have the problem that the only position in which the user does not have to exert any force (and the aircraft would therefore be trimmed) is of course the centre position. So what a simulator without force feedback support does when you are trimming to circumvent this problem is to add some additional layer in between the physical joystick input and the simulated control input. Going back to the original example, when you are accelerating and try to maintain altitude, you will (as you would in real life) push the joystick forward. When then try to trim nose down to reduce that force that you are applying to the joystick’s spring, the simulator will make you move your physical joystick back towards the centre and thereby reducing the amount of pressure you have to exert on the physical joystick. So the joystick and the simulated stick/yoke will get displaced against each other. It‘s basically a stick force simulation placed on top of the true to life simulation.
The way I understand it, an external force feedback software has to try to reverse engineer this „stick force simulation“ and remove it.
Yes there should definitely be an option in the sim to disable the default behavior that doesn’t make sense with a FFB device. I suppose it shouldn’t be a big development, but would bring great value to concerner users.
vpforce gets around the trim issue pretty well. since the axis are set up in its own program and sent via simconnect, it reads the game trim and offsets the axis output by an adjustable amount (each plane has to be tuned a little bit because of differences of stick vs trim travel) - the result is that you trim to relieve pressure (the stick in-game will appear to move while your real stick does not, no avoiding that)
I’ve tried this, but the auto start still keeps working. I’ve replaced the 1 with a 0 in the Global settings, SAVED it, but it still reverts to a 1 after MSFS starts.
How do I permanently stop auto start in XP Force?
In the mean time I’ve bit the bullet and bought XPForce again (the new version has official FS2024 support), so I don’t need this work around anymore.
I also had some problems getting autostart disabled but if I remember it correctly, I think after trying a couple of times, it suddenly worked… I certainly didn’t do anything “fancy” to get it working.
The Moza AB9 is a pretty awsome kit where it comes to the FFB, loving it especially with Toag’s Huey, where, if you speed up too much, it will simulate the rotor flopping through the stick itself… which will make you think twice about flying too fast.
It’s cool with the moza kit, but it’s still not native FFB, so it does read speeds and if yer using yer flaps, landing gear and so on, with regular airplanes, it still feels a bit off somehow, but the flying itself is quite natural with the AB9.. i find myself kissing the surface more than i did before and i’m pretty sure my flying skills have not gone up two levels because of me.. so it must be the kit.
So, unfortunately: Kudos to the Moza guys for pulling it off, not for ms/Asobo to properly implement the surface simulation… There’s just no other way to describe it, unfortunately.
It‘s a good start for XPlane but I don‘t like that it It‘s a good start for XPlane but I don‘t like that it works only with specific hardware. The approach from a certain military flight sim, which has general force feedback support, is much better and apparently possible. I don‘t want to replace the hardware I‘ve already got. works only with specific hardware. The approach from a certain military flight sim, which has general force feedback support, is much better and apparently possible. I don‘t want to replace the force feedback hardware I‘ve already got.
For FFB to effectively work in your Joystick or Yoke you need two things.
The software being used must be able to interpret the various situations within the game which would give rise to a force on the Joystick/ Yoke and send a signal to the Joystick/ Yoke which is capable of being reactive to the signal. This usually means some smart coding and some mechanical drive(s) within the hardware to give the feeling of FFB. The old MS FFB2 had the built in motors and would still operate today if it could get the correct signals.
If your current hardware has no built-in motors etc then there’s no way of making it into a FFB Joystick/ Yoke.
You are right of course. Edited my original post to make it clear that I already have FFB capable hardware. Actually a modified Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2. It kind of works with XPForce for Microsoft Flight Simulator but not nearly as well as in DCS. So in my case it‘s entirely a software problem.
Just wanted to state that while it‘s great that XPlane integrated native FFB, I don‘t like the approach of just supporting some specific hardware. As far as I know, DCS manages to support ANY FFB hardware - and that should be the way to go for Microsoft/Asobo.
I have a simionic yoke, and there are various issues with it which I don’t belive can be solved without native FFB support. Trim and Autopilot are the real problems. The sim can make changes to trim either through pilot input or autopilot. If the FFB software is set up to move the yoke like it would in a real aircraft, this sends additional axis inputs back into the sim which it isn’t expecting, since it is designed with a self-centering yoke in mind. It can result in some oscillating of the aircraft.
Overall, whilst FFB currently adds some immersion, I’m not sure it is worth it for the problems it causes, which is a shame.
My fear is that in order to sell to the masses (evident with the new Playstation version), the more hardcore simmers are being pushed into second place.
I totally agree. We need native FFB implementation. It‘s the only way. All other solutions are more or less flawes workarounds.
I also have this fear that Microsoft Flight Simulator is turning more and more into a game instead of a simulator with all the console stuff. On the other hand, it will generate more income and more funding for future developments - which MUST include proper FFB support.
Also, with more affordable FFB devices on the market (e.g. Moza), the player base with access to FFB should also increase and give it more weight in the overall scheme of things…
