Forum Bug Report Management

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21

The placebo comment was a bit tongue in cheek, it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously.

Apologies for that.

My concern here still stands. Take the first bug I mentioned in the OP, it isn’t tagged. What is the status of that bug internally?

There are many bugs like this that are legitimate reproducible bugs that have not been tagged.

How do we know they have been added to an internal bug list?

I wish your comment had focused more on my OP and not so much on my less important comments later in the thread.

Again, I feel like you CMs are quick to defend, but not so quick to engage in conversation regarding the original dialog.

Basically, this conversation is now about my perceptions of the Q&A and my tongue in cheek comment about the placebo rather than my offer of helping get the bugs sorted on this forum and having confidence untagged bugs are actually being handled.

That is frustrating.

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22

There’s very little more I can respond with at this exact moment on your overall topic post, that being said it’s heard loud and clear that improvements could be made to the bug report category, and following up on the forums after the bug has been logged!

For the second thread linked, this seems to be a post from March 2021 that only received one response and no other comments from the original poster. It was related to a 3rd party aircraft and unfortunately we are unable to test every single 3rd party aircraft for its compatibility with updates, that process would need to be conducted by the developer during the beta.

Thanks,
The MSFS Team

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23

My concern, which isn’t a hugely heavy one, regarding the second linked thread is more about culling the ever expanding bug report section of the forum to help make it more focused.

I’d like to see bugs like that one closed and removed from the “active” bugs.

My hope is that in doing so we can get the bug reports trimmed up and focused on what issues really need addressing.

The fear here is that if I were on the internal team and I had our own internal bug stack and then I came here and looked at this, I might just be inclined to blow a fair bit of this off and miss what was actually important.

It’s hard to hear a message when there is a lot of noise in the background — that is my thinking.

24

Absolutely, I understand your logic entirely! As I say there isn’t much I can comment on at this exact moment, but it’s certainly something that I’m sure improvement could be mutually beneficial for everybody.

We have internal systems in order to track the process of logging bugs. If you haven’t already, have a read of this FAQ that gives some detail into this process for Zendesk tickets. There is a section at the bottom about how the status can be updated on the forums. This status may not be applied to every single bug report on the forums depending on the nature of the report. The Release Notes will always provide a full comprehensive list of everything that has been fixed or improved.

Thanks,
The MSFS Team

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25

One last thing, and apologies for occupying your focus so much here, but that was an element that was always confusing — Zendesk vs. forum.

What is the deal?

Should we report bugs on Zendesk or should we report bugs here? In the past it seemed we needed to do both, which was even more arduous than the process I outlined in my OP. Reporting in two places was a pain.

What is the relationship between Zendesk and the forum when it comes to bug reports?

And thanks, Chewy, for talking to me. I always appreciate it! :slight_smile:

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26

No need to apologise at all! I’ve always appreciated your openness to helping and providing us feedback. Even if I am unable to give you the answers you’d like to hear right away, we want to ensure you know we are listening! :slight_smile:

So both Zendesk and the forums are actively monitored by the customer support and community teams. We regularly meet to discuss trending issues that may need to be escalated, or to discuss the progress on certain topics be it from the forums or from Zendesk tickets.

Whilst there is no requirement to log a bug on both platforms, you may be able to get peer to peer support on the forums, whilst the Zendesk ticket will go directly to members of our customer support team straight away. Either way when there is a bug that needs addressing it will all be logged in the internal system, no matter which avenue it arrives from.

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27

This post is the biggest example of how flawed this system is.

We are talking about an old problem since SU7 that was reported but there was never any feedback on the forum about its status. (More than 100 votes)

Does Asobo know about this problem with clouds with 0 opacity in live weather? We do not know. It’s the biggest visual killer in this simulator.

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28

Something you can do if you want to see when bugs get tagged/logged/fixed is to switch on ‘Watching First Post’ tracking for the feedback-logged, bug-logged, and fixed-on-live tags. I have these switched on and it helps with keeping up to date with bug progress :sunglasses:

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29

When I started using MSFS early last year (on Xbox, based on ads for MSFS), I was unlucky with timing because of all the bugs at that time - but I was hooked by the potential. I joined the Beta testing, and after much frustration with both MSFS and with this Forum, I do acknowledge the progress made in stability and functionality, and customer engagement and support.

But I think this is part of what leads to some frustration (emphasis added):

“… meet to dicuss TRENDING issues that MAY need to be escalated…”

…when there is a bug that NEEDS addressing it will all be logged…"

You can see how reports would be lost, left behind or deemed not important enough…

I would suggest 3 relatively easy changes that might improve things without re-inventing the wheel:

  1. instead of endless new threads in categories, simply establish 1 new empty thread for each logical item - example: all reports for “Weather” are in 1 “Weather” Thread, Much easier to follow over time, and less number of threads to manage…
  2. That should make it easier to tabulate issues as they are reported in the same place, and add them to a list (which could be more easily shared). If there is a person at Asobo and another person at Azure who work on “Weather” issues, it’s much easier for them to follow.
  3. Having (some kind of) a list of for each logical item visible to users, that is somewhat better than the current snapshot, would go a long way to giving dedicated bug reporters some form of acknowledgement that they have been heard - and avoid at least some repeat posts? Even if I try to search for an existing report on a bug, the results are pretty chaotic to sort through, so I end up posting yet another new thread…

With a little bit of careful planning, the fixed threads for Bug Reporting might look something like this:

• Purchasing MSFS
• Marketplace
• Installation and Updates
• Performance and Crashes
• Opening screens
• World Map
• 1 dedicated thread for each default plane
• Weather
• ATC
• Nav Data
• Traffic
• Multiplayer
• UI
• Network issues
• Scenery
• Discovery Flights
• Bush Trips
• Hardware and Controllers
• VR
• SDK
• General catchall

That gives users, forum admins, and Devs, a natural, structered way to report, and a way to track each over time, and most importantly allows a person to be responsible for summarizing and keeping a list - that could at least partially be kept up to date and visible(?)

It’s just a suggestion, but since MS / Asobo are making the effort to re-write major aspects of MSFS for 2024, I would suggest there is an opportunity to try a new strategy / starting point for bug collection from users.

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30

Hello @GimbalAxis,

We purposely do not want one mega thread for each category of bug because it makes it impossible to keep the conversation focused on a single issue at a time. When the developers are working to resolve Weather Bug A, for example, it’s essential that they can easily refer to all forum posts and player reports about Weather Bug A without having to scroll through dozens of other unrelated posts about Weather Bugs B, C, and D.

Though not an exact 1:1 match, the list of mega thread topics you proposed is more or less how the Bug Reports section of the forum is already categorized:

Thanks,
MSFS Team

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31

I have to agree with Seedy here.

You have to have individual bug reports for each bug.

At the same time, however, I understand your point, too.

This is why I really feel we could use some clean up of the existing mass of bugs and to get them tightened up and culled of non-bug issues. In some cases, I think a re-write of their title would be appropriate, too. Just to make them more clear and easier for everyone to search for.

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32

Well, the issue is that lots of single issues (seem to) get lost, and multiplying individual threads becomes like herding cats…

If you look at the really good Discord servers (and I’ll use Working Title as an example) they have “G1000 NXi”, “Longitude”, and “787-10” mega threads, and they work really well for the devs and for users. If a new issue arises in the thread, they log it internally. If someone else reports the same thing, a dev or other user will just reply “logged” and that relieves the visitor need for acknowledgement. So I thought I’d suggest it.

At any rate, I know it’s a massive amount of info to sort - I thought if the posting was forced in to a structure it might be easier. And I acknowledge that MSFS is improving - a lot of underlying issues like memory issues and faulty avionics were swept away with the recent Sim and AAU updates.

I think we testers fear that the overlooked things will just continue in 2024, and can only hope that there is proactive editorial review going on, and not just reactive response to vote counts. Thanks for listening.

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33

For sure, this. It is my concern, specifically, for those bugs that haven’t gotten tagged.

The sim has been around for 3+ years and we know that, at some level, there has been a review of bugs by the various parties involved in disseminating the information, but having all current valid bugs tagged helps those of us who have taken the time to report them feel they are, at least, logged and accounted for.

How they are prioritized internally is beyond the scope of the forum. I’d certainly like to see base functionality bugs be prioritized higher, but without being on the internal team there is no way to know or understand what is at stake when addressing these issues.

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34

[Moderator edit: please do not ping the Community Managers]

Similar to the “bug list” issue – Is there somewhere that we can go to see what Asobo has as “action items” regarding asks for new/improved/corrected features? Here’s an example. I would like to see the ability to choose any camera in a spawned window. How do I check if this is planned for? If it isn’t, what should I do? Even though multiple windows were provided, it was limited to the main camera, which handicaps the usefulness of the multiple window feature (like they only did half the job). I understand that it isn’t really a bug (we weren’t promised camera selection), but neither did it meet our expectations for multiple windows. This issue is already documented in the “Wish List” but there appears to be no way to find it on any kind of “action item” list. It would really be great if there was a methodology for tracking “asks” like there is for tracking bugs (knowing that the two often overlap). Thanks!

35

I was just thinking - remember when Microsoft and IniBuilds brought the A310 to MSFS and Xbox? There is a single thread for that official discussion - and it was great, you could ask a question, read through others, and it was actually pretty efficient even if some repeat questions were there. I think it cuts down on the actual volume of stuff, because people can read through and more easily search within a thread given Discourse’s functionality. It was just an example of how it might work (for some things).

36

This thread was very useful not only for learning how to operate the aircraft but also for finding bugs.

I agree with you, in some cases I wish it were that way.

37

Hello @GimbalAxis,

We always post an Official Feedback Thread for each new release: every new plane, Sim Update, World Update, etc. These threads are for general discussion and feedback, and each one (including the one for the A310 you linked above) explicitly states that they are not for reporting bugs.

If you have any bugs related to this plane to report, please create a new thread in the Bugs & Issues section of the forum.

Bug reports should always be posted to the appropriate section of the forum (one bug per topic). This is essential so we can properly log these issues in our internal tracking tool and the developers can refer to player reports, screenshots, videos, etc. from the forum thread when troubleshooting these bugs.

Thanks,
MSFS Team

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38

Ugh, yes, I know it says that… what I’m trying to convey is that maybe - just maybe - it’s actually a better format for bug reporting. That it might be worth considering. I suggest trying a single thread for bug reporting some item that is not so busy or consequential, and see. Also, maybe ask Working Title what they think of their Discord bug reporting being in a single thread per “thing” - they do a pretty good job. Anyway, just a discussion, and the ideas are free.

39

OK, but can someone from Asobo answer my question?
Is there somewhere that we can go to see what Asobo has as “action items” regarding asks for new/improved/corrected features?

There are two things we users are interested in:

  1. Is a particular bug that has been reported being worked on, and if so what is the ETA of fix delivery?
  2. Is a particular ask that has been reported being worked on, and if so what is the ETA of delivery?

With both issues the question is the same – how do we know?

40

Hello @GimbalAxis,

As mentioned previously, the development team very frequently refer to forum topics and look at player reports, screenshots, and videos when they are working to fix bugs. It would be impractical for them to have to scroll through dozens, hundreds, or possibly even thousands of unrelated posts when they are looking for information about one specific issue. This is the reason why we always request a single bug report per topic.

Thanks,
MSFS Team

1 Like