Hey yall! I’m just curious is there anyone who flies general aviation and also uses MSFS2024? I’m sub-20 hours in C172 IRW training and I’m wondering thoughts on using this sim for flight training(?). At this point, my best use of the sim seems to be flying in the simulator to experience the landscape and the airport runways. Physics-wise, it seems to suck at best and be out to lunch at worst. Anyone tell me their thoughts?
A quick search will show a LOT of detailed opinions from us. But in my nutshell…
FS is a great procedural trainer. It is also great for physics if you have a decent aircraft. The J160 I flew in RL was fantastically represented by the payware one.
Flying VFR is an absolute joy because 90% of the waypoints I’d choose in real life can be used in the sim with zero issues. I can turn the GPS off and do a cross country perfectly as per real life.
So, I have no complaints. Except for weather effects in cloud and storms…
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Nailed it. its great to look at but I wouldn’t advise any of my students, when I was teaching, to rely on the sim for anything for PPL. Your FOV, Depth perception, flight physics, system recreation etc are all not quite right in the sim and could lead to bad habits
Now if you go for your instrument rating then the sim can come into play for procedure, approach practice etc
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My advice to student pilots and prospective near-term pilots is lay off the sim. You’re about to get a proverbial firehose of information and training thrown at you and the things you learn in the sim are uncontrolled. What I mean by that is they’re not vetted for accuracy and certain aspects (like spatial proprioception and tactile feedback) and real world traffic, ATC, even weather conditions are impossible to properly recreate. The sim teaches you to work around the lack of these by focusing on other things, which isn’t the way it’s done in the real world.
While you’re in that first critical phase of training, you’re learning new pathways, new muscle movements, and you’re going to find out just how different it is. Think about all the different, highly unrealistic controls we have. Trimming, use of rudder - things you can’t learn the feel for in the sim. The sim becomes fairly useless, even detrimental for a while during primary training.
What r/w pilots have more than anything regarding the sim is the ability to filter out the unrealistic things and mitigate the forwarding effect those have on real-world flying. However, when you’re in the sim you have nobody telling you you’re doing it wrong, much less how to fix it. The point is at this point you don’t know what you don’t know and there are a lot of things that can cause negative transfer.
Can there be a benefit to the sim? Absolutely. The sim allows perspectives, opportunities, and (virtual) risk-taking that you may never have in the real world, especially considering the difference in cost (a sim, a good computer, and decent peripherals are about the same cost as 20 hours of flying). Some of the procedural aspects you can practice in the sim are absolutely (but unofficially) transferable. And there are plenty of success stories from people who simmed prior to learning how to fly (I’m one of them). Going through cockpit flows? Have at it.
But again, in my experience the most important thing in this regard is being able to discern what’s useful and what’s not, and how to go about using it effectively. That’s really only going to come after receiving training from a qualified instructor.
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I have been a flight instructor for many years. In my experience those that have used flight simulator at home usually have a decent understanding how airplanes work and the effects of controls (nose down - houses get bigger, nose up - houses get smaller, nose too far up - houses get bigger again).
What they generally have no clue about is how to trim an aircraft 
. Most fly with the trim instead of using it the way it is meant to be used, to trim control forces away. Most will teach themselves to look inside at the instruments rather than flying by using outside references, which is hard to unlearn.
Maybe with VR or head track nowadays it is easier to look around and use outside references, but from what I have seen, using flight simulator often creates the (bad) habit to over rely on instruments.
When it comes to instrument flying trainees might teach themselves how to fly on instruments using wrong scan patterns that again could be difficult to unlearn. It is a lot easier to learn stuff right the first time.
Radiotelephony you won’t be able to learn from using the default ATC, especially when flying in Europe where the phraseology is different from US. In general ATC is bogus.
It is great to train procedures and nowadays the scenery is so good that you might be able to discover an area and airports before going somewhere for real.
I wouldn’t bother to much about the flying, it doesn’t matter what simulator you use, sitting behind a desk with a non-force feedback joystick that uses a centering spring, it doesn’t matter how realistic the flight model is, you can’t learn to fly behind a desk (neither is a Level D simulator a good tool for that).
You can get a quite decent understanding of the basics, effect of controls and aircraft systems though. It is a good tool to practise basic instrument flying: radial inbound / outbound and QDM / QDR instercepts, holding entries, DME arcs, etc once you have already aquired the basics.
I have used MSFS and Xplane a lot to practice flows, procedures and systems when I did my Boeing 737 and Embraer 190 type ratings, using study level add-ons of course. There are a lot of good 3rd party planes out there, PMDG for Boeing, Fenix for Airbus, I can’t wait for the Ini A220, I fly that aircraft irl. Type ratings have never been easier 
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It is important to understand that while it might look realistic, realism doesn’t seem to be Msobo’s prime focus. For them releasing new content every other week is more important than creating a realistic platform with real educational value.
The educational element is quite absent in FS20/24. Previous iterations had a solid suite of lessons from beginner to airline pilot with Rod Machado, there was some kind of built in wiki in FS9 (don’t remember if it was in FSX) where could find all sorts of topics. In comparisson the few tutorials available in FS20/24 + career mode have little educational value. It feels more like a game than a sim in that regard.
Is simming good or bad, it is hard to say. It has benefits, there are risks. You don’t know what you don’t know, it is hard to filter what is realistic and what is not if you haven’t flown before 
.
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Yes, the physics are wrong. Throttle up to climb, throttle down to descend. That’s the big one. In the sim you point the nose.
But, I was simming long before I took my first checkout ride. I built the airport in FlightGear so I could practice. When I took control, I flew the aircraft complete with landing. I recall asking my instructor for the stall speed on approach. Afterwards he said, “Keep flying those simulators.”
For me, it reinforces good habits. Scanning the instruments, doing the mental math, etc. I agree with my instructor; keep simming.
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I thought that was what you do on the left side of the power curve only where you use throttle for altitude and pitch for speed. On the right side of the curve isn’t it pitch for altitude and power for speed?
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Well, I’ve never flown a jet, so I’m not sure.
I used to show my students that if I establish a climb (doesn’t matter the airspeed) and pull the power to idle I can pitch the plane over to maintain my airspeed(pitch for airspeed). The only thing that changes is altitude(power for altitude), they definitely work together through all phases of flight. but in general if you use pitch for airspeed and power for altitude your instructor should be fine with it. This comes into play during landing and slow flight the most.
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That’s exactly what I meant by saying on the left side of the power curve (slow flight) 
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Hey, good luck! If you’re ever struggling, let us know, there will always be someone to provide support or encouragement for those days where its just not working for you.
Where are you doing your training?
For me, I tried to use the sim to assist during training (even experimented with VR, which does change things a little), but honestly, I found they didn’t really aid my abilities. In the end, I stopped using them for anything PPL related and just stuck to my usual airline sim flying. I also started training just before COVID hit, which meant long periods without flying IRL. Eventually, my school shut down and I had to transfer, just as I was ready for my skills test.
I’ve been into flight sim since I was a kid (starting with FS98). When I began training, it helped to already have a good understanding of aircraft basics, ATC comms (thanks to VATSIM), and aviation terminology (like circuits, etc.). But, as others have pointed out, the aerodynamic effects on both your body and the aircraft just aren’t there in a sim, and those are what really make flying challenging until you become more comfortable.
As you progress, you also realize that training is very structured, you learn the way your school and instructor want you to. Each school has its own preferred acronyms, procedures, and methods. Sometimes this can be frustrating, since one instructor may tell you to do something one way, and another a different way. That’s something sims don’t prepare you for. In fact, they often teach more bad habits than good, because real instructors or examiners might not agree with how you’ve been “practicing” in a sim. At the end of the day, they want you to be safe in the skies, but they also want you to pass exams and skill tests £££££
My biggest issue during training (aside from all the delays) was navigation. I was initially taught using an improper technique, which didn’t help. That’s what I specifically tried to use the sim for, but it wasn’t very practical. VR helped a bit, but it was clunky, especially when trying to use a real chart and PLOG with a headset strapped to your face.
There were also smaller surprises. For example, how much physical effort some manoeuvres take in real life, like stalling or crosswind landings. It took me a while to get the hang of a proper crosswind technique, because in reality the environment is dynamic, you sometimes have to apply inputs, then remove them, then reapply. Landings were also a challenge. I’d often flare too soon or end up needing a pinch of power to avoid slamming into the runway. My instructor (who also owned the aircraft) had a very high standard, which at times was frustrating, but in hindsight helped me become a safer pilot.
When I had to transfer schools, I quickly noticed the bar was much lower. I also moved from training at a commercial airport to a private airfield, which meant big changes in both procedures and R/T. In the long run, though, this was great experience, as it built confidence in both environments. Pilots often find that those from smaller airfields fear big airports, and those from big airports fear small strips. Personally, I initially feared the smaller ones, since I’d spent most of my sim time on airlines and began RL training at a commercial airport, mainly for that very reason.
All in all, I’d only really use it during training/to aid training, if you are already familiar with what you are doing, and you are sure you are doing it correctly, because as others have mentioned, there is nobody there to tell you otherwise. As much as it surprised me and someone pained me at the time, despite trying, i just didn’t find practising my PPL stuff on the sim to be very beneficial to my RL flying, so i stopped. By all means, if your into airlines, continue with them for the fun.
Finally, unless you like having the P-taken out of you from time to time, I’d be mindful about who you disclose that your a flight simmer to, at the school especially. Personally, i kept my mouth shut throughout my training and gave no inclination that i knew some of what i knew from my experience with flight sim. But i was in it for my own best interests, instead of dressing to impress so to speak.
Good luck!
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Immediately after a lesson, I used to come home and redo the flight in Flight Simulator. And I would do it again before I went back. I really think it helped to cement what I learned. I got my private pilot certificate with not much more than 40 hours, and I dragged it out way over a year. Usually you get rusty and lapse if you have big gaps in your training, but my instructor said I always seemed fresh when I came back. I chalk that up to Flight Simulator.
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Not necessarily, by the way this is the same for prop as for jet aircraft. The drag curve is a lot more flat on a jet so there is less speed stability. That is the only difference. Although on a jet you don’t usually operate on the back side of the drag curve.
What you are referring to is speed stability, on the back side of the curve, as soon as speed decays, it keeps reducing until stall, and the other way around it will increase until meeting the other side of the curve. This is only true however when altitude is maintained.
Without control input the aircraft won’t maintain altitude until stall, it should be statically stable, so the aircraft will without input pitch to maintain the speed it is trimmed for. It might need a bit of help and retrim if large power changes are made. On the back side more power changes are required of course.
Therefore you don’t need to change the way you control the aircraft based on where you are on the curve. What we used to teach is starting descent with power, then the nose would follow by itself, then trim if needed. Same for cruise climb. If speed changes are required, first pitch, then power and trim.
We trained students for their integrated ATPL so we didn’t go far with the nose = speed and power = altitude as it isn’t transferable to bigger aircraft.
I think the point here is that, at least as far as I have seen, this isn’t well simulated in MSFS. Just trim the aircraft for a certain speed and play with the power, you’ll see there is a lack of static stability, at least on the default aircraft.
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This is something I have definitely noticed. It is “frowned upon” for some reason 
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When I was doing assessments at the flight school I worked for I usually asked if they ever played flight sim. It is at least a good indicator whether someone is really interested and motivated.
But there were also those that came to assessments with printed Airbus 380 load and trim sheets and acting like they know it all because they have thousands of hours of flight sim. Then it was like “oh no, not one of those again" 
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If you are humble about it, I think it is a good thing.
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That’s it.
While it shouldn’t be frowned upon, I think sometimes it comes down to the stigma around those types of people, as they may often portray themselves as a bit of a “know it all - nothing”, making them harder to teach.
Of course, not everyone is like that, but this industry as a whole, has its fair share of ****
I used to work airside, heaven forbid someone found out you actually liked aircraft!
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Let me had one more experience and ideas on this discussion.
I have always use flight simulation software, from ZX81 in 1980’s to all versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator. I use them before my PPL(A) and 20 years now after. I have approximately 1,000 hours of VFR flights in France and US mostly.
My personal lessons learned: a flight simulation software’s interest for a real leisure pilot on a PC is highly dependent on the peripherals and their configuration. In the vast majority of setups, you should assume it’s useless for the feeling of flight and accuracy of flight parameters. But, the PC platform is awesome to train yourself on procedures, checklists or do-lists, navigation, check point and so on. In short, a very valuable tool to stay ahead-of-the-plane and use to be prepared.
During my PPL learning phase, I also was very well prepared to do the radio coms because I had hundreds of hours VFR-only flying on IVAO, with a good manual and practicing various situations . It was funny to look at the face of my flight instructor 
A good way to be ready for the real flight, improving instead of starting from scratch.
A more recent usage of my sim is also to practise tablet aviation sotware. I’m using Foreflight and Skydemon connected to MSFS and train to get immediate access to the feature I need, without spending time head down. New features of these rich apps are discover, quietly seated in front of my PC
This is an oft-overlooked fact and I love that you called it out. There are exceptions, of course, but a lot of that comes from the fact we tend to stick to our home “bubbles.” And that makes sense - getting out of those on our own is very expensive and often otherwise prohibitive (say, if you’re a renter). There are a lot of GA pilots who have only been to a class delta (towered) or higher airport once or twice, as mandated by training standards. Then there are those that primarily train out of a delta and have only been to non-towered strips a handful of times.
The sim is great for getting out of the bubble. For me, it’s literally the best thing about it - we can see what the rest of the world looks like from the air and safely deal with all the challenges of geography, airspace, and weather (to an extent) in real time. But the traffic (or lack thereof) and built-in ATC still leave a lot to be desired. Still, finding a fairly non-busy delta or charlie in VATSIM might be one of the closest experiences to real life that can help folks get over that.
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Totally echo this! The closer to reality we practice, the more intense and useful the experience. Your point about using real-world tools is spot-on. Connecting ForeFlight is invaluable for learning the ins and outs, flows, etc.
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Years back I took over a decade hiatus from flying and used the sim to get back in “shape.” A little over 3 hours of dual until I was signed off for a BFR and checked out in a new aircraft type and another 4 to get an IPC in yet another new type to me. The sim was an absolutely invaluable tool, especially with transitioning from “steam” gauges to a G1000, which I hadn’t flown before. Again, back to my point that prior experience allowed me to filter out what was useful and what was not from the sim. I cannot overstress that point to folks who are looking to transfer sim experience to real-world - you have to approach it with an open mind and be prepared to re-learn what you think you know. But having a decent foundation of “pull yoke houses get smaller,” turns to a heading, general relationships between pitch and power, etc, is not an overall bad thing.
I really like @CaptainRude2025 ’s comment about use of the sim as an indicator of interest and motivation, but also being cautious about being overzealous about it. Years back (I’m talking more than two decades ago), the pitfalls of home sim use by student pilots were as much a thing as it is today, with nearly the same hang ups of fixation on instruments during visual maneuvers, induced by the same lack of spatial proprioception and kinesthetics in the sim.
My roommate at the time (a CFI) told me about a student that was struggling with basic maneuvers. They were incredibly fixated on how the trainer didn’t have “rate hold,” (meaning vertical speed) like their flight simulator at home (probably FS2000), but how they were so good at flying 747s in that. Over and over; same old, same old. This was around the beginning of the “children of the magenta line” phenomenon, which is an entire case study that still plagues pilots today.
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It’s not sold or marketed as such, so you really shouldn’t expect it to
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