Giving up on simming after update V?

Can you change the post @WebSanity and add a question mark on the end of the title. It’s like you are announcing you are giving up when you are really interested in what the communities thoughts are.

For the record still having an absolute blast. Not going to lie about the crashes, I’ve had a couple but not too many - all related to 3PD content and for me and still a rare thing.

How many exactly? If you say “a lot” you seem to have a system of measure, or a database telling you that. Mind sharing the numbers? I’m not dismissing the fact that there are people having CTD’s, but I’m interested in actual numbers.

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You can make edits?! (I’m still learning this system, sorry). Sure thing - done. Yes that makes it better. Thanks for the suggestion on that. AND I have also been put straight :expressionless: that I ought to have expanded out in the initial post better. When I get a chance (work gets in the way) I will expand out my feelings at the top level. I am fascinated in this debate how it is so polarised. I guess people are simming for different reasons and so updates affect people in different ways, or not at all! It’s clearly very evocative but a healthy debate exploring different peoples’ experiences can only be a good thing. Thanks

I have been wondering why that community has not seem to have been affected by LOD issues. (or maybe they have, would any be able to comment?) Maybe they just happen to be lucky? Maybe their machines are far more capable than many? Maybe they have better network bandwidth? Maybe they are far more in control of their settings than I am (which wouldn’t be hard :slight_smile: )? Maybe they are somehow able to avoid the squeeze on bandwidth which has affected many other people at peak times - maybe by not streaming at peaking flying times for example: I’m sure that must be a factor. So many maybes - this is a complicated subject indeed!

Depends on which part of the LOD you are talking about. Draw distance or literally detail?

How detail is perceived, or is actual showing can have multiple different causes:

  • Internet connection is one of them, having high bandiwth does not guarantee it’s utilized, there are a lot of factors out of end user and server maintainers (MS) control. If high detail data is not received, it’s not shown.
  • Different level of satalite image quality on different levels. Satalite images can be clear from 30.000 feet, but terrible at 3000 ft. Garbage in, is garbage out.
  • Misunderstanding of aorosol affecting view distance and how textures look.
  • There is also monitor callibration, or color settings which can be off. But yeah, there is something with the lighting in game (or i screwed up my video output and display settings).
  • There are definitely also other things, like photogrammety looking like melted buildings. There is so much the AI can do now, this can only be improved.
  • A lot more variables

The second to last one would affect all users. There are a lot of things, sometimes misunderstanding, sometimes settings, sometimes things not in our control, sometimes the end users systems themselfs.

Edit:
as @TANGOFLYR670 is mentioning below, increasing detail in close range (elevation, more or less triangles to draw (less complexity reducing CPU & GPU workload), etc…).

An ongoing related issue and my biggest peeve now! There are just way too many variables with users, setups and systems to have a single solutions for anything it seems and the providers still have a lot of work to do. It’s definitely complicated.

It’s on the contrary very simple: Lionel’s interview video about a month ago made it very clear now.

In short: they are reducing the poly draw count in directly changing the way the renderer is “using” index buffer. In other words and per my understanding they seem to tell the video card to “skip” every other triangle by virtue of “skipping” the indices to vertices for example. No matter how you do, just “skipping” vertices is guaranteed to shape morph the 3D model.

In order to do it in a way which is visually better, you not only have to “skip” vertices (which you can do via the indices) but you also have to re-adjust the vertices to preserve the overall shape. This is more complex and more computing than just skipping indices, but it is also more visually correct.


[edit] Here is a sample video:

From an old paper:

View-dependent refinement of progressive meshes

http://hhoppe.com/vdrpm.pdf


And a few others found on their GitHub page:

Mesh optimization
http://hhoppe.com/meshopt.pdf


Smooth view-dependent level-of-detail control and its application to terrain rendering
http://hhoppe.com/svdlod.pdf

PS: It is published by Hugues Hoppe and he was at the time of the publication from Microsoft Research… :roll_eyes:

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just a quick question regarding control. are you experiencing slow response time when in control options? when setting up my bravo, the sim lags or freezes for a period before accepting input. just wondering if this is a widespread issue or just on my end. thanks

I think a lot has to do with what had to be changed to work with a console. Not being close to a PC, but at least it’s standardized, but not adaptable. I imagine, from broken mods, that a lot was done to how the flight model and graphics is interpreted between softwares. Hopefully with the next WU they will have a better handle on things.

I had problems with the DA62 mod with only one engine starting, the SR22 not working correctly, but had no problems with the TBM930 mod. Now, I think, all are working again. My graphics didn’t seem to have much issue, I’m usually under 080 and haven’t seen a CTD except for initial loading. I’m assuming that is when the software is switching to modded to unmodded after removing the community folder contents and starting up. So far happy with the sim.

I7-5930
48 GB ram
Nvidia GTX970
Running medium to high settings

Yet another thread where someone with a legitimate issue is told to shut up because it’s working fine for someone else. This has to be one of the most toxic forums on the internet.

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What some people still don’t understand, is that the consoles are faster than some of the pc’s used to fly in msfs2020. If SU4 worked for mostly high end machines, but was mostly unusable with reasonable settings, for low-midrange machines (which are the majority), then that’s far from an ideal situation. Bottom line: if the xbox profits from changes, then many PC’s do as well!! It still looks orders of magnitude better than any of the other sims out there, and over time we can maybe get back to the old level of visuals.

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I am not giving up. I am waiting for the reconvaleszence of MSFS. In the meantime there are other mothers with nice daughters :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Regarding the complicated thing, I was basically speaking in general terms about the whole sim/user relationship and all the variables involved not just the annoying morphing issue. Hoping the next update will provide a fix for that one. The NZ Orbx mesh seemed to do the trick for that area but we shouldn’t have to pay extra cash to have that outcome.

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Not sure if I’m giving up, but I’m not far to do so. For the moment I’m taking a long break, until further notice.
MSFS2020 is no relaxing time anymore for me. I hope it will become again in the future… But I’m not really convinced. And I will certainly not invest again in add-on nor in hardware, surely not in hardware because few months ago everything was running fine for me, certainly with some flaws but nothing really important, now it’s only a mess everywhere I turn my eyes on.

It depends really. If you disconnect and reconnect hardware, the sim freezes for a bit because it needs to reinitialise the hardware, and download the hardware control profile from the cloud. If you’re lucky it only freezes for a few seconds before it finishes the initialise, but if you’re unlucky, it could cause CTD.

I’m not sure about the bravo, as I never use them. I use Thrustmaster TCA Airbus set. And the sidestick and throttle are both connected to a small USB hub and that hub is connected to my PC with an active USB cable extension. The only other thing connected is my wireless keyboard and mouse through a wireless dongle. So only 4 devices are connected. And I always make sure everything is connected before I start my sim, so it doesn’t reinitialise if I connect it after starting the sim. The response is pretty much the same as before, I guess. I haven’t noticed anything different.

Why? It’s the best update so far.

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Yes. Working really well before update 5. Now crashes (no addons) regularly. If there was a refund option I would take it right now. Not fit for purpose for me and is just taking up disk space. Don’t have time to investigate work arounds. I’ll check back in six months to see if Asobo ever got their codebase under control.

Thanks for replying. I think it’s an issue with the bravo after the last sim update. when changing assigned buttons, especially if you choose scan, the sim freezes for a period of time.

Quite the opposite, SU5 got me back into flying after a long break. Performance is better than ever, plenty of great aircraft out now and definitely a more complete product than prior to the update. The sim has never been in a better place and the next few months look to be even better with the content they announced at Gamescom.

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Thanks for your thorough breakdown. Can we also consider not just the snapshot view but how the graphics are displayed over time? Not only are the distant graphics poor for me after su5 (hopefully to be fixed by a slider to let me choose draw distance over fps for my style of flying) but they are loaded in visual blocks in a very regular pattern which for me, and others, breaks the immersion completely. For me that is a deal breaker, i cant personally stay with msfs if it works that way. It didnt use to be that way.
I also think your bandwidth point very interesting. Yes many of us have high speed connections, however if the ms network is overwhelmed by players, or the ms servers are overloaded, then graphics ars going to suffer badly. Asobo must have been optimising for speed of xbox (which somebody else here has said are pretty good spec machines anyway) but perhaps an even bigger challenge was them optimising to take load off the network so they could cope with a deluge of new users.
I read previously people measuring the actual data transferred to and from sim, and it didn’t seem a lot, like it was already constrained by ms infrastructure and not broadband speed. Now that will have been constrained even further.
Has anybody noticed patterns of good/bad graphics at certain times of day (does it creek when many xbox gamers come on line?) Also I wonder if some countries are worse affected than others?
At paranoid moments I have actually wondered if ms can control data bandwidth/processing power based on your user. Not from the point of view that my bandwidth allowance has been turned down but that other peoples might have been turned up. That is utterly without foundation but i was grasping at straws to figure why some streamers, one video posted in this thread, seem to have brilliant graphics with no LOD issues. But lets not go down that rabbit hole.
I hope it isnt server load behind graphics issues for me because if it is then WU6 wont fix anything, and as per this post, i will stop thinking of leaving and just leave.
But lets hope it fixes everything and game goes back to the amazing experience it USED to deliver for my type of flying.