Ground effect too strong in windy conditions

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Brief description of the issue:

Ground effect seems way too strong in windy conditions (strong crosswind or headwind). Takes forever to bleed off speed in such conditions. C172, Cub and Caravan tested.
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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

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Hello @FolkishZeus315,

Can you please provide additional information such as the windspeed and direction, the airport, and the runway where you tested this?

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MSFS Team

I would absolutely agree with this. I was barely able to control the 172 out of KVPZ. Winds were 220/7kt. Trying to taxi was almost impossible and taking off was impossible. The SR22 seemed better.

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Will do some more testing and report back with more details.

I’m finding that just steering the thing on the ground with anything above 10 kts wind is almost impossible. Just tried it again messing with the settings and even with full rudder I still have to hit the brakes to force the plane in the correct direction. I know your specific issue is related to ground effect, but can you confirm the same issue with taxi?

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Will do some more testing. I know the DA40 has problems with taxing, especially turning in the wind.

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Ok, so I just tested again at St. Barthelemy (TFFJ) using live weather at first in the C172 (around 1000kg total weight). Winds varying from 072 - 088 at 15-21 knots (gusty winds). Was taking off and landing runway 10. Really hard to slow the plane down in ground effect. When I increased the wind speed to 20-29 knots (gusts), it got a lot worse making a landing here pretty much impossible. In zero wind conditions, everything is fine.

Same issue with the King Air which is almost impossible to slow down in ground effect, even with the power levers in flight idle. Should be the opposite due to the huge prop drag. Not sure if this is due to lack of prop drag for the King Air in particular, or something strange with ground effect in strong wind (crosswind or headwind). I did not test the King Air in zero wind conditions though.

What airplanes are you flying? The C172 works just fine and the way it’s supposed to. It’s actually a lot harder to taxi a C172 in real life when it’s windy than in the sim, and you often have to use differential braking to stay on the centerline as well as constantly working the pedals and using wind correction with ailerons and elevator. But the DA40 has some issues.

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Thanks for the reply. While I’m not licensed, I’ve flown 172s in real life and what I’m experiencing isn’t what I had in real life. Tested it again just awhile ago and at 7kts I was full rudder to one side and having to stomp on the brakes. At 6kts, this exaggeration disappeared almost completely. I’ll continue doing more testing on my end.

3 Likes

Not sure what the problem is. I have issues with the DA40 regarding taxing in wind, but not the C172. 7 knots wind shouldn’t give you any issues while taxing. Not in real life either. I have a few threads now regarding wind issues that came with SU10, so I suspect we need some adjustments to the way wind behaves. That being said, I really like what I’m seeing now with SU10, but it needs some adjustments for realism. There’s also a thread here regarding the turbulence which is a bit too heavy now in SU10 beta.

I have the same problem with the PMDG 737 BBJ. For now I am using default airports from MSFS itself since my airports still do not reach MSFS, I also use a program for yogo with the mouse called VJOY (Virtual Controller) since MSFS itself lacks this vital function for some of us . when I’m running for takeoff I play with the rudder (keyboard), when I get to VR the plane loses the center line while I pull the yoke to take off and the plane looks like a crazy kite. Of course, physics is not the same in a plane with few to few passengers as in a full plane with cargo included… but it seems to me that Asobo should look at this

Didn’t they mention something about get rid of ground winds limit in su10 that has been around since fsx in the q&a before su 10 beta was released? When they talked about ground physics? I will check later if i find that part. Maybe that is the problem that makes the winds near ground too strong? I have noticed the bumps caused by terrain making mechanical turbulence has been increased in strength as well after su 10.

Just made a live flight into EDFC. 10 knots crosswind component, gusting 15
The C172 needs full rudder and is still not controlable on the ground! Which is wrong in itself. On the ground the wheels keep the aircraft on track and not much rudder is needed. In reality it needs a lot of aileron, lesser as speed increases. Not simulated at all!

Looking at the weather menu the wind says something about m/s which should be kts! But looking into the described scenario above I think the sim did not simulate 10 to 15 knots, but 10 to 15 m/s! This would be 20 to 30 knots. But still a real C172 will not need full rudder on ground!

Basically the whole wind simulation at and near ground is messed up and has nothing to do with reality. Needs complete rework.

3 Likes

Maybe I am reporting back in the wrong category. It says ground effect in the title. My comment was about controlability ON the ground. Not near / close to the ground (physical ground effect of approximately 1-2 wingspans above ground level). Will copy and paste into a more appropriate threat.

Can confirm the ground issues as well (C172 Steam gauge)

Landing at CYUL (IRL winds were 240 @5, so a slight right headwind on 24L). Braking for the first Highspeed taxiway, the C172 was acting erratically. I stopped the plane still on the runway, could not move. Tried reving the engine up to takeoff power to get momentum, the plane was as stuck as a tree.

Even in real life if you get a flat tire, you can limp the plane on the ground (IRL the main gear did delfate on me when I landed a stable appoarch with my CFI, took at least 45 min to get the A&P out with a new tire :sweat_smile:)

In addition (X-post’s): [All aircraft] Crosswind takeoff/landing physics very flawed since release - #141 by monkiesandtools, [All aircraft] Crosswind takeoff/landing physics very flawed since release - #172 by monkiesandtools

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SU10 appears to have over-cooked winds on the ground for Light aircraft. In winds of 230/09 for example, I was having extreme difficulty in getting the aircraft to turn during taxi. I’ve held a PPL for some 20 years and never experienced such issues in modest wind conditions.

I also feel turbulence on approach is overdone.

I suspect that those flying ‘big tin’ may feel SU10 is an improvement (and some work on weather conditions was needed), but it has removed a lot of immersion for me in light aircraft (the stock C172 being a classic example).

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Having similar issues with the C172 (steam gauge). Set up a scenario winds 150/20. I can taxi and turn OK, but do need a lot of toe brake to make the turn without it being a very wide arc turn. Then tried a taking off from rwy 24. Even with full right rudder, the plane drifted left and could not counter the cross wind at all.

Having read another post I have noticed in the Flight_Tuning section of the cfg file these lines -

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed = -1000 // feet per second, default is 80
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed = -1000 // feet per second, default is 5

I had not changed this, but the default aircraft seems to be using factors of -1000 for each, rather than the default mentioned in the file. Not sure if this has been changed as part of the SU10 update ? I tried using the suggested default settings, but the behavior seems the same.

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For whom setting up custom weather: Note that the weather settings are correct, yet sort of misleading: Settings are in m/s not knots (which is weird because METARS, TAFS etc are never in m/s).

So you might have to do some math to set it up to your liking.

Not just light aircraft but heavy as well I noticed this when taking off and landing. So the next flight I tested this (lucky me the weather happen to be the exact same in both locations both days I tried it). I took the 747-8 from Chicago-Frankfurt both airports had relatively calm weather Chicago was no more than maybe 6 knots and Frankfurt got up to 8 knots but still not bad at all. ( the first flight I noticed I was having to apply a huge amount of rudder on takeoff and landing. The second flight I decided to tests and set both to the same wind speed and direction ( preset weather) so about 5 knots from south/southeast again I noticed I was having to apply wayyy too much rudder for such little winds. I know it wasn’t a rudder keybind issue because I testing with NO WINDS and it was as straight as straight could possibly be. It seems like they upped the ground affects too much so even the slightest bit of winds be it 3 knots or 20 knots shoved you around and while yes a 747 in 20 knot winds would be move of a hassle 3-5 knots of wind would barely be noticeable in a 747.

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Same here. Just landed the Kodiak 100 in Lukla, with 7kn cross wind - almost impossible to keep the plane on the runway and required a lot of rudder. Seems not to be realistic.

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