Ground Handling | List of aircraft wheel friction values

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41

Date for the Black Square Baron (0.1.0), and Bonanza (0.1.1).

Plane Model SteerFriction OtherFriction CrossZero CrossMax
bksq-aircraft-analogbaron bksq-aircraft-analogbaron 1.6 1.6 51 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps 102 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps
bksq-aircraft-analogbaron bksq-aircraft-analogbaronturbo 1.6 1.6 51 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps 102 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps
bksq-aircraft-analogbonanza bksq-aircraft-analogbonanza 1.6 1.6 51 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps 102 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps
bksq-aircraft-analogbonanza bksq-aircraft-analogbonanzatanks 1.6 1.6 51 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps 102 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps
bksq-aircraft-analogbonanza bksq-aircraft-analogbonanzaturbo 1.6 1.6 51 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps 102 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps
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42

A hybrid approach. Unusual!

43

Finally had some free time! Post 1 has been fully updated to comply with @HomieFFM standards.

Interesting fact: Of the 56 Asobo and Microsoft stock aircraft available in the Premium Delux, only 4 have had meaningful tuning for cross-wind effect. Meaning 93% of the developers own aircraft have not had these values applied.

Some devs are using all 4 values -like WB-SIM. This might be a sensible approach as you can tune out very low speed weathervaning altogether.

BlackSquare have made the GrandCaravan even more brick-like on the ground: it now won’t feel a crosswind less than 50knts! Talk about solid - this explains why so many Caravan-drivers say ‘hey I have no problems doing this in the Caravan’.

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44

good job! almost my standard :smiley: only thing left to do is the use dropdowns for the questions and explanations,
then you don’t need to scroll that much to get to the list

just copy paste from here :wink:

“Dropdowns” in Markdown

45

Ooh, I wondered how you did that!

Thanks. It is a bit of a scroll-fest!

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46


 Looks good 


Note also, most GA lane have different wheels / tires on the Main gear, than the Nose gear.

ie for a C172 (typically – Non Tundra)

  • 6.00-6 tires on the main wheels
    and
  • 5.00-5 tires on the nose

where:
x.00 = Tire width (inches)
-x = rim diameter (inches)

So main gear has a total of 12" tire width on the ground, ( 70 %)
with the nose wheel only has 5 inches (30 %)

Note also: (as quoted from respected Internet aviation sources)

The tread on airplane tires is different than that of automotive tires.

To increase stability in the otherwise windy conditions, manufacturers use a special tread pattern on airplane tires. The tread pattern helps to create traction between the tires and the runway, thereby reducing the airplane’s movement in windy conditions.

(Whose has been fitting Auto, or lawn mower tires on MSFS default planes ?? ) :scream:

I am hoping when we finally see the 1st A2A Plane for MSFS, it will come with a selection of tires with different amounts of tread, which will be reflected in the ground handling. (Will then justify the long wait !!)

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47

Let’s hope the new ground friction model allows for accurate modelling of different co-efficients of friction for not only different contact surface area, but type as well: so not just your tire tread, but the landing surface as well. That would open up the SIM to the wonderful prospect of surface contamination and slippery landings 
like these!

48

Hope that pilot carries a spare set of underwear with him, (in his FRIGHT Bag) :woozy_face:

Nice Metal “Mud / Stone Flaps” on the landing gear 


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49

He is a cool customer. Interestingly there was this single random tree on the threshold he nearly hit on the final takeoff. A case of MSFS being very true to life! (He explained that they don’t have it cut down as they use it to line up on landing
)

50

Aka ‘water skis’

51

Its a Light aircraft – but not that light !!! :smiley:

water_landing_without_floats
water_landing_without_floats762×354 43.7 KB

46 miles – 53 minutes, water ski record on the water !

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52

I wonder if BlackSquare really mean to set the zero crosswind value to 51 for its Bonanza and Baron analog mods?

My understanding is that it means that until the IAS hits 51ft/s (that’s 30KIAS), no crosswind effect will be felt.

You could taxi around on the ground in very windy day and not be too much bothered.

Anybody fly the BS Bonanza or Baron notice that it seems to be rock steady on the ground?

53

Just Flight updated the Warrior II, Arrow III and Turbo Arrow III/IV about a month ago. The new versions include the wheel friction and crosswind tuning parameters. Here are the new values:

Plane Steering Wheel Friction Main Wheels Friction CrossZero CrossMax
Warrior II 4.0 6.8 -1000 -1000
Arrow III 4.0 6.8 -1000 -1000
Turbo Arrow III 4.0 6.8 -1000 -1000
Turbo Arrow IV 4.0 6.8 -1000 -1000
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54

Thanks :pray: Will update the list. Good to see these great aircraft updated.

Interesting that they went the -1000 route. Personally I think setting the crosswind value to a low range of 5 and 10 isnt a bad option in conjunction with the friction scalars on lighter GA aircraft.

This way you eliminate the unrealistic vaning at very low wind/taxi speeds that you will still experience even with quite high lateral tire friction values. The trick is to set the upper limit to about 10 (6 knots) so you start to get the true strength of the wind immediately on the t/o roll, faster taxiing or windier days.

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55

I just checked the FSW 414AW Chancellor and found that those values were also updated at some point. I have version 4.1.3 installed.

Plane Steering Wheel Friction Main Wheels Friction CrossZero CrossMax
414AW Chancellor 1 1 20 120
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56

That’s interesting. I just ran across this thread a few days ago, so I’m fairly new to understanding the new wheel friction parameters. I’ve flown both the JF Warrior II and the Turbo Arrow III since the update, and it could have fooled me. The Warrior II swerved violently into a crosswind during the takeoff roll multiple times. It was as if a light switch got flipped around 40 kias or so, and the plane careened into the wind.

In light of that, I assumed the new parameters weren’t implemented. Clearly I was wrong. It must be related to my takeoff trim setting. With the old version, I used to set a slightly nose-up trim for takeoff. I suspect it’s causing the nose wheel to lift slightly off the ground at 40 kias, and the loss of friction at the nose causes the plane to suddenly vane into the wind.

57

It is likely that. You can notice this even more in tail-draggers when the tail starts to lift.

Try with more nd trim or gentle forward pressure on the stick until it’s ready to fly.

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Blacksquare Analog Cessna 208B Version 0.1.4.

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed = 90 fps/ 54 kts
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed = 30 fps/ 18 kts

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.3
ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.3

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59

Noted and thank you for submitting. BS approach is to clearly nix out xwind effects at lower speeds.

As a general comment, the most recent version of the SDK makes it clear that the speed values relate to indicated air speed. So in an 8knt headwind, it will only take 10knts of extra speed to hit the 18knts IAS lower threshold BS have set for their analog caravan for crosswind effects to start to apply. But of course the more the wind is off the head of the plane (ie the greater the crosswind component), the less effect it will have on IAS.

60

Could you explain this further? I am trying to learn all this stuff before setting my figures lol.

So you saying is better to set CrossZero to 6 knots and crossmax then what?

R.

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