This thread is to list the ground handling variables for all aircraft in the sim to help keep a track of what aircraft have been tuned to deal with cross-winds better.
[Latest update 9/4/23] [credits: @hobanagerik for providing the core data, @HomieFFM for inspiration)
Details
- Explanation of the issue
- What are the tuning values?
- How to find if an aircraft has the values applied?
- A list of all current known aircraft values?
- Links to other lists.
- How to tune and test your own aircraft?
Vote on the global bug report here: [All aircraft] Crosswind takeoff/landing physics very flawed since release
1. Why this matters
We have all experienced snaking off the runway as soon as the wheels touch the tarmac in cross-wind conditions, or ending up in dirt following an uncontrollable veer into the wind during the take-off roll. Don’t worry - this isn’t just down to you or your controls, but the physics of the sim and how aircraft have been tuned.
Even in a light right crosswind a pilot of a single-engine piston aircraft may find themselves needing to apply left rudder as the weathervaning force is even greater than all the other left-turning effects of torque, prop-wash, p-factor etc. IRL, most light GA pilots report never having to use left rudder on a take-off roll, but it is common to have to do so in MSFS. Other aircraft will simply not track centreline even well below the maximum demonstrated crosswind for that aircraft.
Although piloting skill and controller set-up and calibration are important, a big part of the reason why aircraft can be hard to maintain centreline on take-off and landing is the way wind in MSFS has an excessive ‘weathervane’ effect on the yaw-axis behavior of aircraft on the ground. Asobo have recognised this is a result of poor friction modeling and leads to unrealistic behavior.
2) What are the tuning values?
Whilst they work on a more physics-based solution, Asobo introduced 4 new values in SU9 that aircraft devs can use:
ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar
ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed
ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed
The first two values set how much LATERAL friction you get from the nose/tail (ie steering) wheel and the main gear. The higher the scalar value, the more the aircraft will resist lateral forces such as from weathervaning.
The second two values determine the speed, in feet per second (1 knot = 1.69ft/s) at which either no crosswind effect is felt by an aircraft or at which full, or maximum, is felt. This in effect acts like an ‘assist’. It can also completely eliminate the very unreaslistic weathervaning aircraft experience when taxiing even in light winds.
By using either sets of values, or both in combination, a dev can tune an aircraft to allow more realistic ground handling.
For a full explanation refer to the SDK: flight_model.cfg
3) How to find if an aircraft has been tuned?
It isn’t always obvious when an aircraft has been tuned to handle cross-winds and what values have been used. To find if an aircraft has been tuned go to the aircraft folder in either Official or Community packages and navigate to find the ‘flight_model.cfg’ file. Use Notepad++ or any similar text-editor app to open the file and look through the file until you find the ‘Flight tuning’ section. If the values have been applied, you should find them in this section. If the 4 values listed in part 2 above are not listed then the aircraft has had none of the values applied -not even the defaults. If they are listed, but are blank, then the default values have been applied. Any other numbers indicate custom tuning by the dev.
Note that some devs have chosen to only use the tire friction scalars. They may have set the max/min crosswind values to ‘-1000’. This means the aircraft will always experience the full effect of the wind and is perhaps more realistic, although by setting even a default zero effect value (5fps), then this can help eliminate all weather vaning in light winds of less than 3knots or so.
4) List of current aircraft values
The following table sets out the 4 values for each of the listed aircraft types. A ‘–’ indactes that the value has not been used in the flight model.
If you want to add to the list, or correct it, please post in the thread below. Please make sure to include details of the the aircraft model, the dev, the version number and what has been used - this includes nil values also (its good to know what aircraft have not been tuned)
| Developer | Plane | Steering Wheel Friction | Main Wheels Friction | CrossZero | CrossMax | DoI | Version |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Asobo | Cessna 208B Grand CaravanEX | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Airbus A320neo | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Boeing B7478i | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Boeing B787-10 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Beechcraft Baron G58 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Beechcraft Bonanza G36 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C152 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C152 Aerobat | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP G1000 | – | – | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP- G1000 - Floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP - G1000 - Skis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP - G1000 - Tow Plane | – | – | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP - classic (steam) | 1 | 1 | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP -classic - floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna C172SP -classic - skis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cabri G2 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cap10C | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna Citation CJ4 | 10 | 10 | -1000; | -1000; | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Diamond DA40NG | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Diamond DA40tdi | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Diamond DA62 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | DG1001e | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | DR400 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | DV20 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | E330 | 1 | 0.25 | -1000; | -1000; | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | F/A18E Super Hornet | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Flight Design CT | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Icon A5 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Beechcraft Kingair350 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cessna Longitude | 2.0; | 2.0; | -1000; | -1000; | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | LS8 | – | – | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | NXCub | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Pipistrel | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Pitts | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Savage Cub | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Savage Shock Ultra | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Savage Shock Ultra - Floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Savage Shock Ultra - Skis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Cirrus SR22 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | Daher TBM930 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | VL3 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | X-Cub | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | X-Cub - floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Asobo | X-Cub - skis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| ATS Simulations | ATS Simulations Piaggio X | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 2.1.5 |
| Flysimware | Cessna 414AW | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 3.4.4 |
| GotGravel | Savage Grravel | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | |
| Microsoft | Bell 407 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Microsoft Douglas DC3 | 2 | 1 | 5 | 80 | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | DeHavilland DHC2 Beaver - Floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | DeHavilland DHC2 Beaver - Wheels | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | G-21 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Hughes H4 Hercules | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | JN4 | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Pilatus PC6 - G950 - floats | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Pilatus PC6 - G950 -wheels | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Pilatus PC6 - gauge - skis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Pilatus PC6 - gauge - wheels | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Spirit of St Louis | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| Microsoft | Wright flyer | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | SU12 |
| BlackSquare | Beechcraft Baron G58 - analog | 1.6 | 1.6 | 51 | 102 | 23/03/2023 | 0.1.0 |
| BlackSquare | Beechcraft Baron G58 - analog - turbo | 1.6 | 1.6 | 51 | 102 | 23/03/2023 | 0.1.0 |
| BlackSquare | Beechcraft Bonanza G36 -analog | 1.6 | 1.6 | 51 | 102 | 23/03/2023 | 0.1.1 |
| BlackSquare | Beechcraft Bonanza G36 -analog -tanks | 1.6 | 1.6 | 51 | 102 | 23/03/2023 | 0.1.1 |
| BlackSquare | Beechcraft Bonanza G36 -analog -turbo | 1.6 | 1.6 | 51 | 102 | 23/03/2023 | 0.1.1 |
| PMDG | Douglas DC-6A | – | – | – | – | 22/03/2023 | 2.0.46 |
| PMDG | Douglas DC-6B | – | – | – | – | 22/03/2023 | 2.0.47 |
| BlackBird Simulations | Pilatus PC-6 - G1000 - Wheels | – | – | – | – | 09/04/2023 | |
| BlackBird Simulations | Pilatus PC-6 - G1000 - Floats | – | – | – | – | 09/04/2023 | |
| BlackBird Simulations | Pilatus PC-6 - analog - wheels | – | – | – | – | 09/04/2023 | |
| BlackBird Simulations | Pilatus PC-6 - analog - Floats | – | – | – | – | 09/04/2023 | |
| WB-SIM | Cessna C172 - enhancement, all versions | 1 | 1 | -1000 | -1000 | ||
| Ants Airplanes | Tiger Moth | – | – | – | – | 1.1.0 | |
| BlackSquare | Cessna 208B Grand CaravanEX -analog | 1.3 | 1.3 | 30 ; crosswind zero effect at 30 fps | 90 ; crosswind full effect at 90 fps | 01/03/2023 | |
| Just Flight Aircraft | Piper PA28 Arrow III | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 0.5.5 |
| Just Flight Aircraft | Piper PA28 TurboArrow III | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 0.5.5 |
| Just Flight Aircraft | Piper PA28 TurboArrow IV | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 0.5.5 |
| Just Flight Aircraft | Piper PA28 Warrior II | – | – | – | – | 01/03/2023 | 0.3.5 |
| Sim Works Studios | Daher Kodiak 100 - wheels | 4 | 9.8 | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | |
| Sim Works Studios | Daher Kodiak 100 - wheels - cargo pod | 4 | 9.8 | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | |
| Sim Works Studios | Daher Kodiak 100 - tundra tires | 4 | 9.8 | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | |
| Sim Works Studios | Daher Kodiak 100 - tundra tires - cargo pod | 4 | 9.8 | -1000 | -1000 | 01/03/2023 | |
| WB-SIM | Cessna C172SP - Classic -enhancement | 1 | 1 | 15 ; feet per second, default is 5 | 135 ; feet per second, default is 80 | 01/03/2023 | 1.0.6 |
| WB-SIM | Cessna C172SP - Classic - Floats - enhancement | 1 | 1 | -1000 ; 15 // feet per second, default is 5 | -1000 ; 135 // feet per second, default is 80 | 01/03/2023 | 1.0.6 |
| WB-SIM | Cessna C172SP - Classic - NoPants - enhancement | 1 | 1 | 15 ; 15 // feet per second, default is 5 | 135 ; 135 // feet per second, default is 80 | 01/03/2023 | 1.0.6 |
| WB-SIM | Cessna C172SP - Classic - skis - enhancement | 1 | 1 | -1000 ; 15 // feet per second, default is 5 | -1000 ; 135 // feet per second, default is 80 | 01/03/2023 | 1.0.6 |
- Other useful lists include:
New Propeller | CFD | Soft Body Simulation - Aircraft List
Adverse Yaw | Slip | Aircraft list
6) Testing and tuning your own aircraft
If you want to test and tune your own aircraft by altering these 4 values you can post your results here. To do this effectively though, you need to follow a careful testing regime. I suggest the following process:
A) Judging realistic behaviour?
Judging when an aircraft is behaving ‘realistically’ is very challenging. Some agreed yardsticks are required. I suggest this should be that:
An average pilot of no special skill, but using correct technique and properly calibrated controls, should be able to take-off and land an aircraft in winds at or below the maxium demonstrated for the type without loss of lateral control - you should be able to track runway centreline without significant deviation. However at or near maximum demonstrated cross wind, strong control inputs, particularly rudder, should be necessary.
B) Set up test conditions:
- Clear weather preset with a pure crosswind set to maximum demonstrated crosswind
- Spawn on the runway /in the air with default payloads typically (50% fuel, pilot/copilot and no payload)
- Control devices and settings noted
- All assistances disabled and external apps like FSRealistic turned off.
- Edit the flight_model.cfg as necessary (ALWAYS make a back-up first). Only attempt this if you are confident with some basic coding skills.
ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed
Vars should always be set to -1000 (for full realism, use of default or other values on these two vars is in effect enabling a hidden assistance option like the other pilot assistance options). Tuning should be done only using the two lateral friction vars:
ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar
ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar
C) Recording Results
- If a take-off roll can be executed to rotation and wheels up, with runway centreline maintained without significant deviation, with the pilot using correct crosswind control inputs then the value is good.
- Likewise if an afrer-landing roll-out can be made that allows you to track centreline with practice and vigorous, but not excessive use of the rudder, then the values are good.
- If significant deviation occurs - say more than 3 degees from centreline, or maximum rudder authority is required with crosswind speeds less than maximum, then the value is too low.
- If no deviation occurs and no significant rudder authority required at MDC, or if it feels like no effort then the value is too high.
D) Submitting results
Users should only submit suggested values if they:
a) Have properly configured their controls and curves for the aircraft type
b) Understand and can execute proper cross-wind take-off technique for the aircraft type
c) Are prepared to tell other users what their control settings are and ideally provide supporting evidence in the form of a video.
Just submitting a random number for an aircraft with no supporting evidence is not helpful and may get flagged by me! Flight testing and tuning is a skilled process and requires knowledge and patience.
