Adverse Yaw | Slip | Aircraft list

Discussion Hub Aircraft
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Instruction - How to search for the Adverse Yaw numbers
  1. Use Microsoft Text Editor or I recommend download Notepad++
  2. Go to your Microsoft Flight Simulator installation folder
  3. Open Community, Official or specific aircraft folder depending on where you want to search
  4. Type in searchbar: flight_model.cfg
  5. Select one or all the cfg files, right click ‘‘Edit with Notepad++‘’
  6. Select ‘‘Search’’ in the taskmenu
  7. Type in: aileron_up_drag_coef
  8. Select ‘‘Keep Searching’’ or ‘‘Search in open files’’, write down / copy number
  9. Type in: aileron_down_drag_coef
  10. Select ‘‘Keep Searching’’ or ‘‘Search in open files’’, write down / copy number
  11. Type in: fuselage_lateral_cx
  12. Select ‘‘Keep Searching’’ or ‘‘Search in open files’’, write down / copy number
  13. Type in: CFD_ReinjectVTailX
  14. Select ‘‘Keep Searching’’ or ‘‘Search in open files’’, ‘’= 1’’ means vtail CFD activated
  • Default numbers are:
    aileron_up_drag_coef: 0.5
    aileron_down_drag_coef: 1
    fuselage_lateral_cx: 0.4
    CFD_ReinjectVTailX = 1

any decrease of aileron up drag
and / or increase of aileron down drag means more adverse yaw

Important: Some Developers are using own Costum Codes,
which means the default values don’t have any effect,
these Airplanes are listed with CC

If an Aircraft doesn’t have any aileron up or down drag in the cfg file
it’s using default values = no adjustments were made to adverse yaw
or usage of own custom code

:arrow_right: Feel free to share your numbers if they are not listed or got updated
via PM or in the comments. Thank you!

Explanation Videos - What is Adverse Yaw?
Adverse Yaw in MSFS

Adverse Yaw is a crucial feature which is often missing or not realistic enough in MSFS, you can make a smooth turn without having to use the rudder pedals at all, which can be completely unrealistic.

But excessive adverse yaw is not always needed in order to be realistic, also some aircraft have design features to minimize adverse yaw (differential ailerons, frise-type ailerons, flaperons, coupled ailerons and rudder). It also depends on other factors like aircraft geometry the aspect ratio of the wings.

SDK

Aerodynamics

General

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aileron_up_drag_coef

Defines the drag added by upwards aileron deflection.
This parameter has a significant impact on adverse yaw.
Reduce upward deflection drag to get more adverse yaw.
This parameter is multiplied by the aileron deflection angle and internal coefficients.
Default is 0.5. This can be scaled with the aileron_up_drag_scalar parameter
in the [FLIGHT_TUNING] section and is further modified by internal coefficients.

aileron_down_drag_coef

Defines the drag added by upwards aileron deflection.
This parameter has a significant impact on adverse yaw.
Increase downward deflection drag to get more adverse yaw.
This parameter is multiplied by the aileron deflection angle.
Default is 1. This can be scaled with the aileron_down_drag_scalar parameter
in the [FLIGHT_TUNING] section and is further modified by internal coefficients.

fuselage_lateral_cx

Defines the perpendicular drag coefficient of the fuselage, which occurs when the airflow is going perpendicular to the front axis (ie: sideways - left to right or right to left) but also going up and down.
This coefficient has an impact on drag when side slipping, as well as a general impact on yaw stability and pitch stability.

Default is 0.4 - which is about the perpendicular drag of a cylinder - and the value should usually fall between 0.2 and 0.8 for most aircraft.

Suggestion: Asobo maybe did a mistake here,
0.8 is actually the drag of a cylinder, values should fall between 0.7 - 1.3 to be more realistic
(0.2 - 0.4 is the drag of a sphere (much too low for most airplanes)

drag_coef_zero_lift

Defines the target drag of the airplane in clean configuration (ie: no propeller, no turbulence, no engine wash, no gears, no flaps, no spoilers, no deflections…), when there is zero lift. This is usually also called the Cdo or Cd zerolift. Zero lift may occur at an angle of attack of zero - reason for which is sometimes the drag at an AoA of 0 - but most of the time, zero lift occurs at an angle of attack that is negative and the Cdo does not correspond to the drag at AoA 0.

In the legacy FSX flight model, this defines the actual Cdo.
In the modern flight model, this defines the target Cdo that will be distributed over all the surfaces of the aircraft when building the airplane used in the aerodynamic surface simulation. Once the aircraft is built, it will then be normalized to match exactly the target Cdo.

rudder_lift_coef

Defines the lift coefficient slope of the rudder control surface.
This will have a direct impact on rudder authority, yaw stability, adverse yaw and induced roll.
The rudder lift coefficient slope is usually dependent on the rudder aspect ratio and should be between 1.0 and 𝝅.
Default is 5.0, and generally values will always fall between 1.0 and 5.0, with a theoretical maximum of 2𝝅
and a recommended value between 2.0 (for less authority and stability) and 5.0 (for more authority and stability).
This can be scaled with the rudder_effectiveness parameter in the [FLIGHT_TUNING] section.

Airplane Geometry

wing_dihedral

This is the angle between the wing leading edge and a horizontal line parallel to the ground,
as seen when looking at the front of an aircraft. Technically defined as the dihedral angle Lambda, in degrees.
The wing dihedral impacts secondary effects such as induced roll and adverse yaw.

vtail_span

The vertical tail span is the vertical distance from the vertical tail-fuselage intersection
to the tip of the vertical tail, in ft. A large vtail span will impact the roll moment of the propeller wash
but also resist the aircraft roll movement. It will also counter adverse yaw and counter induced roll during rudder inputs.

Wishlist: Adverse Yaw - more improvements necessary

Adverse Yaw | Aircraft list

Latest Update: 16.06.23

Abbr. flight_model.cfg Deafult More Adverse Yaw when
UD aileron_up_drag_coef 0.5 :arrow_down: decreased
DD aileron_down_drag_coef 1 :arrow_up: increased
FX fuselage_lateral_cx 0.4 :arrow_up: increased
VT CFD_ReinjectVTailX vtail CFD :ballot_box_with_check: activated
TA Total Adverse Yaw Rounded summary of in- & decrease (default + 0.5)
CC Custom Code Custom Adverse Yaw simulation, UD & DD = no effect

3rd Party

Developer_______ Aircraft________________ UD - DD_____ TA/CC__ FX__ VT
Airmax514 XB-70 Valkyrie 0.5 - 2.5 + 2 1.2 :ballot_box_with_check:
Big Radials Grumman JRF-6 Goose 0.5 - 0.5 0 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Big Radials Norseman 0.5 - 1.5 + 1 1.0 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Flyboy Simulations Rans S6S Coyote II 0.48 - 1.2 + 0.7 0.52 :heavy_multiplication_x:
FlyingIron F6F-5 Hellcat - CC 0.55 :ballot_box_with_check:
FlyingIron P-38L - CC 0.50 :ballot_box_with_check:
FlyingIron Spitfire MkIX - CC 0.53 :ballot_box_with_check:
Flysimware Cessna 414 AW 0.5 - 1 + 0.5 0.2 :ballot_box_with_check:
Got Friends Discus-2c - CC 0.55 :ballot_box_with_check:
JustFlight PA-28R Arrow III 0.5 - 2.8 + 2.3 0.57 :heavy_multiplication_x:
JustFlight PA-28R Turbo Arrow III 0.5 - 2.8 + 2.3 0.57 :heavy_multiplication_x:
JustFlight PA-28R Turbo Arrow IV 0.2 - 3.9 + 3.7 0.57 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Just Flight PA-28 161 Warrior II 0.5 - 2.8 + 2.3 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Madolo & B21 AS 33 Me - CC 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Madolo & B21 LS 4 - CC - :heavy_multiplication_x:
Nemeth Designs Partenavia P68B Victor 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 2.5 ? :heavy_multiplication_x:
PMDG DC-6 0.41 - 0.81 + 0.4 0.36 :heavy_multiplication_x:
SimWorks Studios Kodiak 100 0.2 - 1.89 + 1.7 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
SimWorks Studios RV-10 0 - 1.5 + 1.5 0.6 :ballot_box_with_check:
SimWorks Studios RV-14 - CC 0.2 :heavy_multiplication_x:

Improvement Mods

Developer_______ Aircraft________________ UD - DD_____ TA/CC__ FX__ VT
Black Square Analog Caravan 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Black Square Analog KingAir 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
GotGravel Monster NXCub - CC 0.55 :ballot_box_with_check:
GotGravel Savage Carbon - CC 0.6 :ballot_box_with_check:
MrTommymxr DA40-NGX 1.5 - 2.0 + 0.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
MrTommymxr DA62X 0.5 - 1.5 + 1 0.5 :heavy_multiplication_x:
WB-Sim & JPL Cessna 152 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
WB-Sim Cessna 172 SP Classic 0.5 - 2.5 + 2 0.8 :heavy_multiplication_x:
WB-Sim Cessna 172 SP Floats 0.5 - 2.5 + 2 1.0 :heavy_multiplication_x:

MSFS Base & Premium

Developer_______ Aircraft________________ UD - DD_____ TA/CC__ FX__ VT
Asobo Cessna 152 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Cessna 152 Aerobat 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Cessna 172 classic 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Cessna 172 G1000 0.5 -1.5 + 1 4.3 ? :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo CJ4 0.7 - 1 + 0.3 - :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Curtiss JN-4 Jenny 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 3.0 ? :ballot_box_with_check:
Asobo Douglas DC3 0.011 - 0.005 - 0.006 0.8 :ballot_box_with_check:
Asobo DG Aviation DG-1001E 0.125 - 0.25 + 0.1 0.45 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo DG Aviation LS8-18 0.125 - 0.25 + 0.1 0.45 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo FA18 1.0 - 0.5 - 0.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Grand Caravan EX 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo Grumman G-21 Goose 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :ballot_box_with_check:
Asobo KingAir 350 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
Asobo TBM 930 0.5 - 2.0 + 1.5 0.4 :heavy_multiplication_x:
14 Likes
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I have just listed the two gliders which have an option for realistic adverse yaw from 0 to 100% , with 100% beeing approximate real life.

I know there are a few more aircraft out there where the developers list adverse yaw as a feature.
So please comment if you know one, thanks :slight_smile:

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Adverse yaw is a big one for me as well. I would absolutely recommended the Blackbox Simulations L-19 Birddog as the top one that I own currently.

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thank you, Blackbox Simulations L-19 Birddog listed :slight_smile:

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I watched a few videos about the Blackbox Birddog, but I can’t really see the adverse yaw beeing simulated and they don’t list it as feature, so you are sure adverse yaw works with that airplane?

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Well, it is always better to get more than one opinion. You could always ask on the thread for it.

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With a little research I found the 3 FlyingIron Simulations airplanes have ‘‘Improved Adverse Yaw’’ listed as feature, so they are least trying to implement realistic adverse yaw behaviour.

FlyingIron Simulations - F6F-5 Hellcat
FlyingIron Simulations - P-38L Lightning
FlyingIron Simulations - Spitfire L.F MK IXC

If you know any other developer which have realistic or improved adverse yaw listed as feature please let us know. :slight_smile:

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I’ve been going through feature lists of developers, but it’s hard to find realistic adverse yaw anywhere, all they are listing is ‘‘realistic flight model’’, ‘‘tested by real world pilots’’ … but when you check videos they don’t have any adverse yaw at all.

Don’t know why this is not an bigger topic, people buy complete sim gear setups including pedals, which are 95% of the time useless because of the unrealsitic flightmodels everywhere.

In reality it’s essantial to use the rudders while turning with every airplane, that’s the first thing you learn in flight school…

Yet almost nobody seems to care that this is missing / ignored by all the developers :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
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You can definitely include the Got Friends Wilga on your list. It is an outstanding machine to fly and absolutely includes a great simulation of adverse yaw when rolling into a turn.

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with 100% being approximate real life.

For the Discus, according to Got Friends, the realistic setting is 50%, see this message on Discord

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Thanks, they say 50% is realistic for the smaller version and 100% mimics the big one and then it’s also hardware / rudder pedal dependent.

But so far it looks like they are the only developers who put some effort into the adverse yaw simulation… And FlyingIron Simulations at least try…

The developer tools are there but nobody uses them for whatever reason…

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Just so you are all aware, @GotGravel is the expert behind BOTH Got Friends’ adverse yaw and Flying Iron’s. He is a very talented individual. There is a reason why this list isn’t so much about developers currently using it, but more about one man’s successful incorporation into his development. We hope to see more developers follow in his footsteps.

Cheers!

8 Likes
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Thank you, that explaines a lot !

1 Like
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Changed my mind again and gonna continue the adverse yaw list right here.

  • updated list:
    Cessna 172 G1000
    Flightsim Studio - Tecnam P2006T MKII
    Got-Friends - PZL-104 Wilga
    GotGravel Monster NXCub
    GotGravel Savage Carbon
    GotGravel Savage Grravel

  • most important thing too keep in mind is the aspect ratio of the aircraft wings:
    low aspect ratio = less adverse yaw (for example Cessna 172)
    high aspect ratio = more adverse yaw (for example gliders)
    which means excessive adverse yaw is not always needed in order to be realistic

  • added explantion videos

  • 3rd Party and MSFS stock content seperated

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Thanks for the work you are doing.
The LS4 glider, also by MADoloSimulations and B21 like the AS33, has adverse yaw implemented

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Thank you very much, now updated :slight_smile:

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I implemented adverse Yaw in mod for beech 18. There is a very good video showing this behaviour in beech and I tried as best as I could to recreat it.

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Thank you!
Now listed, also brought me to the idea to make another subcategory Improvement mods.

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‘‘moving’’ this conversation into the right thread :wink:

As far as I know, the turn/slip indicator is not accurate in MSFS, a glider developer mentioned it.

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Added:

MrTommymxr - DA40-NGX Improvement Mod
MrTommymxr - DA62X improvement Mod

He listed ‘‘increased adverse yaw’’ as flight model improvement for both aircraft.