Not really. There is a ton of things missing. They just added the very basics and even that it’s really not representative of how helicopters behave.
I truly applaud their work (and they know that), but it is miles away from behaving like an actual helicopter.
I don’t want to hurt anyone. The development of the helicopter is very initial. Weak 3 D model, weak cockpit. Flight dynamics are not good, they have nothing to do with the helicopter.
In today’s world, users have very serious expectations. Carenado quality models are needed with serious flight dynamics.
We have to wait for the developer … I am confident that development will start in 2021.
Vote for the helicopters!
It’s funny, a minimum Level B (which is required for helicopters) but most likely a Level C/D simulator would typically require 24 CPUs to drive a universal depiction composed of 400-500 individual system and physics models. What I just described is the setup for Airbus’ helicopter sim department.
Now try to rescale that down to a single CPU and a single GPU. And do it so that you have a responsive range of fidelity across a multitude of hardware profiles affecting performance.
There’s many reasons why it takes so long to get helos in the sim that are reasonable facsimiles of actual performance. That’s just a few of them.
Interesting extrapolation, personally I equate Carenado with cheap and volume rather than quality, they aren’t known for flight dynamics so I’d agree serious/quality flight dynamics are a must.
For helicopters to be successful though there needs to be an accessible flight model (I.e. not particularly realistic) to not alienate people looking for quick access and the option to tune the fidelity for realism.
I have seen other posts like that - and of course you are right that it is not wonderful at present. But it is right at the start of development and is battling against the not-ready-yet rotary wing aerodynamics of MSFS - they state that on the flightsim.to page about it.
It is now on version 0.61 so not even version 1 yet - plenty of improvements still to come. But it is the first flyable heli in the sim and is freeware (except I and others have donated and I am working on (typically akward) lights as a present to them.
So lets not complain. I have flown a real-life crew training climb-inside one and a little R22 so I know what real ones should do. We just need to be patient and not criticise until the (massive amount of) work is completed.
The development of a simple helicopter should have been chosen. An R 22 helicopter would have been best. The EC 135 is a complex helicopter with a complex system. Personally
I would pay any amount of money just to get good quality helicopters.
I want models of the same quality that Carenado makes. Amazing exterior model, fantastic cockpit.
You always apologise for ASOBO which is disappointing given your background in choppers.
As a retired helicopter pilot , whilst I can’t wait (but must) for helicopters to appear in MSFS, I do fear that the only change is that the forums will be full of “I can’t fly this ■■■■ thing … there must be something wrong with it ASOBO” comments. Because if/when they do get choppers right … people will hate them for many hours as going from dynamically stable fixed wing to dynamically UNSTABLE rotary wing is an enormous enough step in the real world. Without the instant ‘seat of your pants’ feedback from the helicopter, it will be very difficult to ACT rather than REACT - which is the only way to fly an aircraft that is constantly doing it’s best to tear itself apart, whilst you fly it hanging on a pendulum below the wing - which is going in opposite directions at different airspeeds and apparent wind directions - all the time !
But hey … bring it on !!!
Carenado level? 
No way man, you gotta raise those standards.
I want helicopters to be modeled to AT LEAST Dreamfoil Bell 407 or DCS UH-1/Mi-8 level. Somewhere in that ballpark would be acceptable.
Over the years fixed wing aircraft have gotten the king’s treatment, better stall modeling, pre-stall shakes, better spin representation, better engine/temp/transmission modeling, better lift modeling, respected takeoff speeds and flap settings given weather/temp conditions and aircraft weight. If the helo’s in this sim dont have good flight models and engine/rotor/transmission simulation I’m gonna be disappointed.
There are several key fundamentals that are present in flying a helicopter IRL that should be present in the sim (for those that don’t know)
Inherent lateral instability: A helo FM should require the pilot to make frequent and slight pitch and roll adjustments within the slow speed or hover environment
Torque: This is a huge one for me and is a major factor in a helicopters perceived realism, a helo FM should require the pilot to make smooth and concise pedal (anti-torque) adjustments to
-A: counteract the torque in the system and
-B: provide yaw directional control
If modeled correctly the RPM should respond to a change in Collective as an increase or decrease in collective represents the load on the system. The change in Collective input coupled by the state of the RPM should then determine the state of the Torque on the system. In essence, I should be using more left pedal in a takeoff than I should be in a cruise environment (this is where the dreamfoil 407 fails and the DCS UH-1/MI-8 win, the DF 407 has really wonky anti-torque behavior, esp when doing slightly more aggressive maneuvers)
ETL: Effective Translational Lift, say a day is hot or the helicopter is heavy. A helicopter will frequently make use of a “running start” rather than a more vertical departure. This running start presents more air (via horizontal airflow) to the blades (thanks to the helicopters forward motion), which then increases the amount of lift generated by the blades (and thus the entire rotor system) and allows the helicopter to either
A: make the departure at all or
B: use less engine power (produce less torque)
(yep, this is modeled by the DCS UH-1 and Mi-8)
VRS: Vortex Ring State, basically a disturbed column of air resulting from too much collective too quickly and with not enough lift or airspeed to support it. You can exit a VRS condition by reducing collective and responding with a lateral shift via the cyclic to get out of that column of air.
(yep, this is modeled by the DCS UH-1 and Mi-8)
Ground Effect: I shouldn’t have to explain this one… But I will.
When low, air make cushion, when high in air, no make cushion bcuz floor 2 far.
Cushion helpful when low, Cushion somtimez bad when dealing with wall, haus, weird shapez n othur thingz, can push helicoptur in funni wayz.
Makes for some fun flying honestly, landing on a rooftop or near a structure and getting a push from it that you need to account for, or hovering near a balcony or uneven surface like a house roof or a mountain/cliff just makes for an awesome challenge.
(DCS does this somewhat, theres definitely ground effect and ground effect from structures (rooftops) vertically, but I cant remember if lateral effects from rotor wash are modeled)
Autorotation: If fixed wing aircraft are allowed to properly glide in the sim, helicopters should be allowed to conduct autorotations. It is a direct equivalence. If the system is modeled properly there should be no issue with conducting an autorotation if your airspeed or altitude are sufficient to do so.
(yep, this is modeled by the DCS UH-1 and Mi-8)
That’s about it. If those things are modeled I think we’ll have something interesting on our hands in the sim. These are things that make a helicopters behavior believable, these are things that are achievable, these are things that have been done before, these are the things that are necessary to include if we are to believe that helicopters are being held to the same standard as fixed wing. Especially considering the fact that they’re charging us an additional fee to get helicopters. We’ll see how this plays out, but I’m hoping that someone other than DCS can produce a worthwhile rotary platform. If Asobo/Microsoft can set a high standard, then addon devs for helo’s in this sim will need to meet or exceed that standard. Crossing my fingers the standard isnt low as dirt.
Edit: To the person I replied to, I just realized you meant Carenado from a 3D modeling and artwork perspective and not in terms of FM. I can respect that I guess.
Yup. While I’m disappointed that helicopters weren’t a release item, at this point I’d rather wait and let them give us a good product rather than a rushed one. As I mentioned in another comment in this post, the better the codebase for helicopters and the better the FM of the helicopters they provide, then helicopter addon devs will have no choice but to meet or exceed that standard in order to sell. So here’s to hoping that Asobo/Msft do it right.
I am sure Asobo can defend themselves. They don’t need me to “apologize for them”.
What I don’t want is Asobo to rush this and produce another FSX.
That takes time.
I would want same level as DCS Huey. It will take time if they want that.
The physics of a DCS helicopter has also reached its current level in a long time. My opinion is that currently the DCS UH1, MI8 helicopter has the most authentic flight dynamics and physics.
It would be good if the developer -Asobo- could start developing the helicopters as soon as possible. The developer will not be able to create a good physics, flight model for us at first. It takes a long time to develop, taking into account user feedback.
That’s why I say it would be good to start development as soon as possible, because it will be a long process …
We don’t know if that’s not what happening already. They may be working on a lot of different things but just didn’t go public on it yet.
They already said when helicopters are coming. I would assume they will start (or already started) working to meet that date.
Well, things just got interesting: https://www.helisimmer.com/news/flyinside-announces-helicopter-msfs-integrated-flight-dynamics
Very poor quality of the exterior model, poor quality cockpit … …Initial …
I want realistically modeled helicopters in high 4k quality
Developer Nemeth Designs created high quality helicopter models. Maybe even Cera Sim …
There is always a lot of talk here about the DCS UH-1H (also rightly because it is one of the best simulated helicopters for private use)
But you should also keep in mind that the UH H1 costs around $ 50 and that for just one helicopter + missions. Quality has its price. But for comparison, the standard version of the FS2020 is also available for around $ 50. In the end it will probably also be a question of money. Microsoft has to assess how much the development will cost and how much they can earn with an addon. So the question is also how much are the simmers willing to pay for 3-4 helicopters + heliports, etc. I think only very few want to pay more than $ 50 for it. In order for the whole thing to pay off in the end, savings will probably have to be made in development. Therefore it will be difficult to reach the DCS Huey.
Microsoft will have to compromise between realism and profitability, because in the end every company, including Microsoft, strives to make a profit.
All the criticism about the WIP H135 aside:
We just had a group flight with eight (!) people and H135s… in a matter of 30 minutes. It was awesome! And I think it shows how much the people a longing for helis in MSFS.
We used the EDHK mod (see link below flightsim.to, mrmo Kiel-Holtenau EDHK) and the North Europe Server.
There’s a subchannel now for group flights in the H135 Discord channel:
and the EDHK+Kiel scenery and discord: EDHK Kiel-Holtenau • Microsoft Flight Simulator
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry I had missed this!
We have spent the past month going from unflyable to something that’s starting to feel like a proper helicopter. Thanks to everyone for showing your enthusiasm for helicopters and we appreciate all those that are providing feedback and assistance as we bring something fun to the sim until we have full support in 2022!
