why would you say that the one game is more for sim-gamer than gamers than the other one? Game is a game, gamer is a gamer and a simulator is something totally different than a game. But the new platform certainly is today the better game simulating flight, because it represents/delivers much more items for the user than only a halfway correct flight model. We are not talking about 3rd party add on, but the platforms.
1 Like
I do share your worries, which is why I would actually be more confident if the sim were subscription based. After all, weâre relying on services that are costly to run. Not just the continued improvements of the world, based on ever more data sources. Thereâs also the weather and AIRAC data.
I just donât see how DLC sales could support all those costs in competition with 3rd party products and give-aways.
I will just say this about the video, as I saw it.
It does make a few comparisons that I find laughable and misleading, but of course the chap is entitled to his opinion.
Comparing payware addons to default aircraft to me devalues his whole assessment.
Telling folks that he is using one sim to fuel-check his upcoming round the world flight I find hillarious. And I sincerely hope he is joking.
I did spend considerable time to tune a FS PA32-301 to fly exactly like the real one I was flying. At the end she was 99.9% on the money both in terms of how it felt and how she behaved in the sim as well as all performance figures including fuel.
But just because I could make a full range flight in the sim on one day, did not mean I could or wold go out and fly that same flight in the real aircraft.
Despite carefully calibrated fuel gauges, flow meters and GAMI injectors etcâŠthe one big variable remains mother nature. And the longer the flight the more she can and will mess up your carefully laid out plans.
Sure he can figure out if given certain expected parameters the fuel on board will give him the range he needs for a segment, hopefully always with some reserves or a good alternate on the back hand. But on the day of his flight he might just find 25 kt winds blowing in his face that he did not expectâŠin fact he may find those winds half way through a leg. What is he going to doâŠfile a lawsuit against Austin Meyer ??
Or he may end up like the guy in his 172 that one day sailed into my homebase with completely dry tanks. Heâd flown the exact same route two month prior and just made it to KLGB but had thought heâd cut it a bit close when he fueled the aircraft for the return trip.
2 Likes
It is not âevolvingâ it is unfinished. If you get a car with three wheels and no brakes or steering wheel, and they give you the other wheel, thatâs not evolving.
It was released too early. The developers are now under pressure because they have to fix bugs and provide more content and work on the XBox version. The bugs arenât tested properly which is why the updates fix things (this is also the non modularity of the design)
I think itâs necessary to keep it going. The shiny graphics will only work up to a point. I am genuinely surprised at the lack of things like the Missions in FSX. If I was doing it myself, I think Iâd open the Mission system up for anyone to develop, which is far easier than (say) designing aircraft. Thereâs some of it with the Bush stuff and the Landing, but neither are really gamey enough.
Because all PC flight sims are GAMES - Simulation genre.
Like bus simulator game, train simulator etcâŠ
Real Flight Sims are extremely expensive (15.000.000 EUR) and approved systems and still just approximation of real aircraftâs
Thanks. I think youâre absolutely right. And your point is further proven right by the fact that your post was flagged as âinappropriateâ. If you cannot debate, either scream people down or silence them. Thatâs become the way of doing things in the internet and also often in the real world 
Thank you also very much for your video. Iâve basically only know SubLogic and Microsoft Flight Simulator since 1984, so this one was a no-brainer for me because I have craved for realistic VFR flying basically forever.
So I agree that FS2020 is unsurpassed in VFR at the moment, and seriously lacks when it comes to IFR and ATC. Nevertheless I donât think that it should be relegated to a flying game instead of a flying sim.
Three reasons:
- Games are something you play for fun. So it would need stuff that is exciting, competetive, or even plain silly. Like racing, search games, speed challenges, aerobatic challenges or perhaps playing bumper cars in the air. Stuff thatâs farther from reality as it is now. It would need a career mode, an avatar and a ranking system as well as communication hub for the players. I cannot see anything like that happening. If you donât implement stuff like that it just will be an unfinished flight sim with great graphics.
- I also see the potential that - especially with new study level aircraft like the upcoming PDMG B737 Max, as well as future updates to the avionics and other 3rd party add ons - FS2020 can be a sim in the future that can rival XPlane in IFR and realism. That of course does not negate the possibility that people just play it on low realism settings. FS2002 wasnât perfect with IFR and horrid ATC-wise, but it improved a lot, especially with the addons.
- Microsoft Flight Simulator has NEVER EVER wanted to be a flying game. All the marketing done before release shows that the aim was to be a realistic flight simulator and not a game. Before XPlane came around it basically was the only serious civilian flight simulator that could be expanded with addons. And I cannot imagine Microsoft giving up their goal to be No.1 again.
1 Like
It already is via Gamepass.
I know alot about this guy, his aircraft, his home airport, his YT channel, his flying experience, his sim experience, his motives, his intentions etc, and his video does NOT best sum up the MSFS vs XP debate IMO. Cheers.
1 Like
Please do not use only steam to compare usage numbers! Although I got mine via Steam, I am sure the majority of users used XBOX/Windows Store instead, with many using their game pass. So Steam numbers would be lower (quite possibly significantly) than the total number actually playing.
1 Like
When I can take the C152 in MSFS and do loops at 1500â AGL over and over and never crash, that kind blows the whole physics idea out of the waterâŠ
Whenever i try something extreme i overstress my plane and the flight ends in a plane breaking up.
This video is not to be consideredâŠMSFS is on its early days, so you canât compare them nowâŠsince its on its way for bug fixing, optimizations , etcâŠSo maybe a video in a year from now we could compare themâŠ
You canât give advice on which to buy now because MSFS is still and will evolve as Xplane was on its early daysâŠand Xplane has a ton of 3d party aircrafts in comparison with MSFSâŠ
However a BIG thumbs down for the video for having him saying that MSFS should better be a game and. not a simâŠsince we already have other simsâŠWhat is he thinking. about??
2 Likes
IMHO, you canât compare MSFS to historical Flight Sims. It canât compete, nor is it trying to.
Historical Sims games matured into the totality of flight simulator, with the only limitation being graphics.
Physics, Avionics, peripheral support etc. have long been apart of legacy products including P3D, FX, XP 11⊠you can compare those to each other.
MSFS 2020 is not that kind of product. YET!
Foremost MSFS attempts to render the flight experience with unmatched graphics. It surpasses anything out the box in this regard.
Secondly, MSFS seeks to target a NEW demographic/market: the XBOX player. The term I use is to define the MSFS 2020 market is âFlyerâ, not âFlight simmerâ.
Pretty soon, MSFS 2020 will mature into the âMSFS Professional Editionâ that includes replays, flight analysis, multi-monitor support, trainer grade VFR/IFR tutorials etc.
For now we have a breathtakingly beautiful âflyingâ simulator
4 Likes
Try checking the settings of (I donât remenber, something like âFlying modelâ). It should be set to âModernâ. People are having problems with it being turned OFF by default.
I didnât record my tests but this is the first one I found.
It was impossible with X-Plane (there was actually some 3rd party module that made it possible but we are talking about comparing ânakedâ versions).
and another one of the flat spin:
2 Likes
Compare the default G1000 in MSFS to the default G1000 in XPlane and you will see what the difference is. I agree that comparing payware aircraft to the default aircraft is not really a fair comparison but the default instrument flight equipment in MSFS is badly broken compared to XPlane. I assume this will eventually be fixed but for now I have to agree with his conclusion. For VFR MSFS is great. For IFR it has a long way to go.
This is not a car, this is software. They have released a software, which is functioning, which is evolving and worth every single penny.
4 Likes
Its definitely worth every single penny and more!
2 Likes
these comparisons are anyway unnecessary and above all always the opinion of the âoneâ! from my side ok, however !
what bothers me the most is the statements or request MSFS to stay a âgameâ - or stay for players because we have enough simulators anyway. ok now an appeal to Laminar Research - we âdonât need XPlane12â, we have enough simulators anyway.
Why not both in one ? something for all ! why not have good graphics and the feeling to be in a storm and then to get the flight behaviour and then to take the consequences because I just flew into it !
I mean what a senseless message ! especially when one speaks for all ! however, these discussions are long and unnecessary ! âespecially when people pretend to eat wisdom with a spoon it is really tediousâ !
no ASOBO / MS please make a Flight Simulator ! 
1 Like
Couple of points that need making. Stefan Drury is a fairly low hours pilot whoâs main aim in RL flying is perfecting his IFR skills; his vids are fun to watch, especially if you live in Oz. He is less dedicated to Flight Sims. As IFR and in-game ATC is still a work in progress in MSFS, his opinion will be skewed in that regard, and so yes with a study level aircraft, IFR flying will be better implemented in XP at the moment.
For VFR, he makes the point that real world scenery and accurate visual way points helps a lot.
For a comparison on that point, I suggest forumites check out two flight videos by Squirrel, a long time sim content maker who is also a GA pilot.
First he flies a tricky route from North Weald (EGSX) to Lydd (EGMD) in a Cessna 172, skirting the dense ATC regions on the way to his destination in MSFS and then repeats the same flight, with an at times queazy passenger, in real life. The utility of MSFS under VFR in his videos is stunning.
2 Likes