Is "the community" toxic?

Its replies like that, that makes it a community “not toxic” put faith in the forum simming world

You are correct, X-Plane had it’s issues as well. But we need to specify which version of X-Plane we are talking about. 11, 10 or all back to the first version? Because then we get into a territory where we need to compare FS2000 to the current version and while there are some commonalities in respect to bugs, this launch was an absolute desaster for many, hence the bad vibe in the forums at first.

I agree 100% that MSFS has the “potential” to be the best sim out there and overtake XP in all aspects. But only if Asobo/MS seize upon this opportunity and actually fix their flight model and avionics. Also the SDK.

The potential of the flight model is there, but some fundamental issues remain that has been discussed here and elsewhere between aviation and software professionals.

Then we can have the truly great sim that was promised to us.The the mood in the forums will lighten up. Currently we have more issues than a human has fingers. That in itself is not that too much of a problem, but the disconnect between pre-release marketing and actual sim was quiet stark.

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Well, they certainly have the will to do it. They need to also be given the time. If people are still complaining at this level 2 years from now, that’s a problem. But at least let’s give them the chance.

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I’m gonna make this brief: Any passionate community is gonna have some toxic elements when it comes to discourse. When people REALLY care about something, they tend to made their voice heard. From there things can get heated somewhat quickly as equally passionate people with differing opinions get involved. Sports is a good example of this.

It’s not so much about the stability issues, which are significant enough by themselves for some people.

It’s about basic avionics and aerodynamics that just don’t work as they should. Going from memory, there was an altimeter issue that has now been fixed, we still have hardcoded localizer courses which make it impossible to fly certain real-life approaches correctly, for example at Innsbruck.

Then there is the incomplete Garmin avionics that supposedly had a lot of input from the manufacturer, the broken turbine model, and much, much more.

These problems are luckily being addressed now, but one still has to wonder why the game was shipped in this state and the people in charge act surprised that people care about such details.

Depending on how far you want to take your simming hobby you will begin to understand some of the grievances that people have with the new sim.

I do wish you all the best in your endeavor because flight simulation is a great learning experience if you take it seriously, even if your spouse and friends might give you a funny look for being on VATSIM with a printed chart in your hand.

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That is why i started this thread:

Hopefully we can all come up with a better system for getting all this information from very knowledgeable forum users over to the devs. I don’t know how much attention Asobo pays to what people here say, but my superficial impression is that a lot of very factual and useful information never makes it out into the light of day.

And for that i started this thread here:

Reality-XP have been developing the best Garmin GPS units for flights sim for years. Having a communication channel open between Asobo and @CptLucky8 would be a pretty good first step towards having the best instruments we can possibly have.

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I think they are simultaneously trying to put out a lot of forest fires and also planting trees, as it were. All with a team that is never big enough.

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I have seen many of your posts, and they are all valid points and well articulated, I can tell you are a genuine real world pilot. So this is a genuine question, not derogatory in anyway. I am not a real world pilot, what is missing…

Avsim for example, has many of these people who like they call themselves"serious simmers", no idea what the ■■■■ that supposed to mean, for me a serious or whatever is that, is to get your license. Any many of these folks, will tend to look down at other folks and start acting arrogant. I even sometimes I wonder, why people make things so hard for a hobby instead of enjoying it in peace and harmony

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Another thing i suggested but never got a reply on, RL pilots should have titles next to their names. They’re the people who actually know how these planes are supposed to feel. Their opinion is very valuable. Having this sort of differentiation between people who know what they’re talking about and random people throwing in their opinion would go a little ways towards improving the general forum atmosphere.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been doing this since the early 90’s and, at best, I’d consider myself a novice armchair pilot.

Haha. Luckily I have no friends. Clearly.

As far as I remember, most people were praising MSFS to the skies (no pun intended) when it got (and before it got) released. Almost all the major complaints have come with each update.

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How can you tell if a plane feels right when you have no motion feedback and only the fixed spring tension of your joystick / yoke / pedals?
Then factor in the differing sensitivity settings. What looks right to some may be way off to others hence why you have some pilots saying the handling is great and some saying it’s way off.

A good example of why both Developers and end users are getting increasing frustrated and then annoyed.

There will be one thing worse than critical feedback of significant simulation errors – silence as those finding the errors that they are taking the time to find and report, being continually ignored, and an increasing silence, as they move away from MSFS, to “Bluer Skies, and greener pastures”

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Absolutely I am flying my little cessna 152 with Mod or Jabiru think its normal…is it my error or the sim…Thats a way forward Forum highlighting real world pilot…yet I can FBW A320 no issues…such an amateur.

BTW my landings with Jabiru are atrocious, thats meant to be a learning to fly plane

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By the way it moves. Yes, you wont have the same feel in your hands and feet, but you can still tell if a Cessna moves like a Cessna or if it moves like an ultralight. I had that the first time i tried a plane from A2A. The way it moved felt way more realistic based on my real world experience (limited as it is).

So normalize your curves.

Either way, how something feels is very hard to describe. How you know how something feels is even harder. But i’m pretty sure that if we listen to a bunch of squabbling real pilots we will end up much closer to the truth than if we listen to a bunch of squabbling armchair pilots.

When you mention Xbox players, just how will they fare this summer when the Sim starts Stuttering at every airport and running like a dog after updates, is there much latitude on an Xbox to lower settings etc?
( Because if it works perfectly on the Xbox I will bin my £2000+ PC and buy a £500 Xbox )

There are some great community players like Neo4316 who you can trust and depend on all the time, but you will always get the knacker who will say his rig never ever stuttered since the beginning just to wind up all those who are struggling.

I think their communication is very bad indeed, but this is probably a consequence of it being a collaboration between Microsoft (staggering amounts of money) and Asobo (not so much).

I still think they need a couple of years with everyone getting off their case as far as possible, and you will probably see something incredible. Probably.

You mean like this guy… :joy:

Don’t let the profile pic mislead you. :sweat_smile:

I do not have a PPL. I do have some right seat experience and “did stuff” but I do not have a rating yet. I plan to eventually, but financially it’s not in the cards for me at this time to a) get a PPL and b) keep current.

I am an enthusiast who knows a few real-world pilots or people that know real-world pilots. So while I do have some knowledge, I am wrong sometimes and will admit to that. No shame in learning every day.

Have a look at this thread. Despite the OPs questionable behavior, there is actually an interesting discussion of wind simulation hidden under all the garbage.

Real Physics for Each Aircraft - Community / General Discussion - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

In general, check for Nintjes posts in the other forum areas. Also people like PZL104 and CptLucky8, which have been flight sim developers for decades in some cases. The PMDG folks also linger around here is my guess, but I have not seen them post anything yet.

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