I think part of the issue we’re seeing now is trying to blend Meteoblue which as we know the weather that comes from there is very fluid, you can sit and see cloud fronts approach and pass by smoothly and naturally, with METAR which whilst the values it reports are of course very accurate outside of the limitations Nijntje mentions above, they are static and quickly become ‘old’.
Trying to blend static data (metar) with a fluid weather system (meteoblue) cannot be easy and I think it is big part of the issues we see now.
Of course on top of that you have the issue were let’s say Meteoblue predicted clear sky, but the METAR is saying overcast, who does it give priority to? How does it integrate that smoothly?
I don’t envy the devs, what they’re doing is no easy task at all, weather is very complex. I just wish we as the user didn’t have to endure all the bugs and pitfalls that comes with trying to implement it. SU7 was targeted to improve live weather accuracy and the irony of all of this is the weather I experience now is the most inaccurate it’s been.
That does not mean the idea is wrong and will never work, the current implementation is wrong. I mean, when AMSL versus AGL wasn’t even understood properly when METARs got first implemented, what do you expect?
I don’t expect much That’s why i enjoyed the sim more before and i have not much hope this will be fixed in a near future. That’s also why i want this to have an option or be removed in the meantime they tweak it. Thay said them self this is complex.
Thats the whole problem indeed, a front or local storms passing are shown as a TEMPO or BECMG in the METAR (if there is a TREND attached to the METAR). In case of TEMPO you don’t know when, where and for how long this change occurs. In case of BECMG you don’t know when within the period the change occurs and how quickly it changes.
Yep exactly, so then what can be a solution to that? Do they simply wait until the METAR reports TS then somehow try to gradually create a thunderstorm? I’ve seen other weather engines try to do this in other sims and it often results in abrupt and unnatural changes in the weather. But as far as I know, Meteoblue data is not good enough to take it from there either. I imagine in somewhere like the height of summer in Florida when TS are sprouting up all over the place and sometimes only last for 30 minutes that the data for such things just isn’t available.
Before SU7 we saw often when Thunderstorms would appear at airports sooner than they appeared in real life because they were predicted that way, or wouldn’t show soon enough.
This is why it’s so complex I guess, so many hurdles to overcome.
It is complex. I have no idea how this stuff works and what data it uses for what. Its all speculation what I’m saying. But I think they should somehow separate the weather into two categories, steady and showery. If weather is foggy with vertical visibility of 200 ft and calm winds, weather is not gonna change instantly and the METAR is essential for getting correct RVR and ceiling. In case of CB, TS, SHRA etc. it needs to use a separate source in addition.
Yes, or the other option, which I’ve seen a lot of people suggest is have MSFS create its own METAR within its own unique ecosystem of weather. If they can continue to improve meteoblue data and accuracy I think this would be something that is realistic to do. They can still keep the winds, temps and pressures from the METAR as they were doing even before SU7, so that people who want to use VATSIM still get this essential data. Cloud coverage and bases etc I think could be left solely to Meteoblue as long as the accuracy continues to improve. Let’s face it, a METAR is static, but the weather is not. That was one thing I loved about it before SU7, I could look up a METAR and it reports a cloud base of 500ft, get to that airport and actually the cloud base was 200ft. That is something we face in real life all the time. I could have a shower pass by, before it had been reported on METAR.
I think the most important thing is that the weather in MSFS remains fluid and ‘alive’.
I don’t think so, in case of LVO the METAR is much more accurate than Meteoblue and essential for getting vertical visibility and RVR correct. If the weather is showery, then sure. The METAR is not that static though, I don’t know how often Meteoblue models get updated but probably not more so than the METAR. Besides we use the ATIS (which is updated with the METAR and essentially contains the same info) to base our take-off and landing performance on, whether or not we start the approach, need a take-off alternate, divert and what not. If its accurate enough to be used in real life, its certainly accurate enough for use in a simulator. You will never get the weather exactly right of course.
Yes, because Asobo doesn’t understand the difference between AMSL and AGL .
Yeah LVOs is where it starts getting trickier. As you say there are some values such as RVR and VV that you really would have to obtain from a METAR, that is always going to be the most accurate source for such information.
We have to also remember we are restricted by the fact this is a desktop simulator. There are always going to be hurdles that are just too big to overcome. Hopefully going forward they continue to improve the weather, I do believe what we see here in SU7 is just a first implementation of a much bigger project. It’s just a shame it’s such a downgrade from what we had previously and that we are stuck with it until they make further changes.
Haha yeah, that sort of thing is what takes my confidence away in them to fix these issues we have now, when they got something that basic so wrong. I suspect they simply ran out of time and what we have now was a rushed attempt that needed to hit the SU7 deadline.
Exactly, the problems we are or have been seeing like clouds on the ground, clear when its actually overcast or overcast when its actually clear, wrong visibility, cloud coverage etc. has not much to do with concept being wrong, the implementation is / was completely wrong.
Thank you for sharing your insights here. It’s good to have a proper discussion on here about weather for once other than the usual ones coming in to refute everything we say and tell us it’s perfect.
I do hope that we are given a setting to choose between Legacy Meteoblue weather or New Metar/Meteoblue. For me right now live weather has regressed hugely. Irrespective of whether (pun intended) or not it accurately reflects real life weather, the actual visual depiction of the clouds is horrific.
I fly exclusively in Ireland and UK and live ‘clouds’ now look nothing like the live clouds I flew in prior to SU7, in fact they look nothing like any clouds I’ve ever seen in close on 50 years living in Ireland. Everpresent gargantuan towering black columns of grainy soot, not of this world, brooding over Dublin.
I know that with the sim’s live weather in it’s current condition I will be visiting the Meteoblue website and inputting weather using presets before my flights. For me, however well intended the concept, the realization of Metar/Meteoblue is a Frankenstein’s monster and, for me, utterly unusable.
Rather than abandon METAR I think they should create a ‘sim-based METAR’, as I posted in another thread:
"In my opinion they should replace the ‘real world METAR’ system with a ‘sim-derived METAR’ system … this sim-based system being compiled from conditions created by the weather engine (which should, you would expect, also be close to current and forecast conditions from Meteoblue). Sim-derived METAR should then also be made available through the SDK so that external flight planner (etc) can use it as an option.
Hoped for end result: a great dynamic weather system (as we used to have?) with reliable METAR that can be used for planning. It won’t necessarily match the conditions out your window (but may well do) but that doesn’t really matter - does it?"
Agree that would be the best. Not have real Metar destroy the Meteoblue weather but we can enjoy looking at METAR that will match all the time! Then they can improve the predictions to be more accurate real time weather in the future when that technology exists.
I wish i could have more options in live-weather especially now after the forced METAR integration. I understand those who needs it but we who bought this sim with forecasted weather only have no option to get it back as it was without.
The options i would like to see in live-weather is.
100% meteoblue-weather for those who likes that including me
Hybrid METAR/meteoblue- weather for those who likes that
100% METAR-weather for those who likes that.
I know we had gusts before su4, i would like that back with options to turn them off if we want to do that.
As this is a wish for including more options in live-weather feel free to add options you wish we had in live-weather.
Cant you do these things with the weather editor. That how I use mine, lookup the weather at departure,
key it into the editor, take off, fly along, when I get about 1/2 to my destination, key in arrival airport weather, fly through that and land.
That’s why i enjoyed the sim more before and i have not much hope this will be fixed in a near future. That’s also why i want this to have an option or be removed in the meantime they tweak it. Thay said them self this is complex.
.
this is the best thing I could think of as well, makes everyone happy.
Then they can improve the predictions to be more accurate real time weather in the future when that technology exists.