METAR keeps disrupting the weather/ bugged weather/Cumulus/CB clouds only/no medium to high cloud coverage

[CoastalGamer]

Check out this obvious METAR cloud. See how it’s dense and circular? So obviously METAR… Okay, it may be in the middle of the ocean, but how else do you explain this? Okay, storms may usually be circular, but there must be some other explanation involving SU7… Okay Meteoblue storms take the shape of real life storms, which tend to be circular and we’re obviously limited by the resolution of the weather grid and the voxel engine… But maybe it could be a METAR station on a boat being driven by Asobo to mess with us?

On a serious note. Between SU7 and SU10 there was a serious problem with the weather engine not properly generating overcast skies from Meteoblue data. In SU10 they made changes to the cloud generation algorithm to ensure that overcast skies are where their Meteoblue data calls for it, which looks like these clumps of clouds (ie: storms/overcast) that are being posted. What matters is how often the clouds actually match METAR. It doesn’t take much testing to find that it often does not match METAR and they pass right over METAR stations. Meteoblue has a pretty good weather model, so of course it will match sometimes, but the fact that it doesn’t always match is a pretty good indication that METAR clouds (or the lack thereof) are not replacing Meteoblue clouds.

Not that this will matter, but another important point is we’re used to seeing clouds from below, not from the heavens. Even most pilots don’t see clouds from the heights we can get to in seconds in development mode, and real life clouds don’t have to worry about pesky things like vram and FPS… That’s why I try to look at the clouds from more realistic angles.

[hobanagerik]

If it’s in the middle of the ocean, where is the weather station located? Is there an island down there somewhere?

[ZodiaLight]

Could you please provide the exact location of that? Land is visible in the upper left corner. And yes there are METAR stations in the middle of the ocean on tiny islands. You ask for proof but then dismiss the proof. Hopefully Asobo takes our feedback more seriously.

This is how METAR clouds look from more normal angles

[SealedVolcano50]

I have noticed since yesterday, that the clouds for me are once again too low with no real weather fronts…it was better last night but aweful again this margining…honestly when this is gonna end?

[CoastalGamer]

@ZodiaLight

Could you please provide the exact location of that?

It’s from a few days ago, but they are all over the place… Just use the world map to look over the ocean for areas with smalls storms and look down on them using the developer mode. Anyone actually testing the weather engine should be seeing (usually circular) clumps of clouds where there’s overcast skies… Whether we like how they look or not is another topic.

@ZodiaLight

You ask for proof but then dismiss the proof.

I don’t ask for proof of this claim because it’s not possible to prove it with the data we have access to. Asobo only has that data and they say that the clouds are Meteoblue only in the current version. A screenshot showing that the clouds match the METAR report is not proof because Meteoblue is not random data… it will often match METAR/real life. The problem is all the times it doesn’t’ match, which is the screenshots you guys will never show and that I have posted many times. We also can’t query the Meteoblue data that Asobo has, which is another major issue. If the clouds don’t always match the in-game METAR report then we can’t conclude that the Meteoblue clouds are being replaced by METAR clouds…

@ZodiaLight

This is how METAR clouds look from more normal angles

That is how large convective clouds are currently generated, and we see them everywhere, including over the ocean and the middle of nowhere. I literally have a folder full of them. That is not proof that those clouds came from METAR, but again, I don’t expect proof due to a lack of data… And by the way, those were around before SU7 and looked much worse back then in my opinion.

[TheMightyFish5]

@CoastalGamer

We also can’t query the Meteoblue data that Asobo has, which is another major issue. If the clouds don’t always match the in-game METAR report then we can’t conclude that the Meteoblue clouds are being replaced by METAR clouds

That is my problem as well. I’m conflicted if METAR has an influence on clouds or not. As you have rightfully pointed out, circular formations or similar alone have no weight for this. At some times though, it feels like it is too perfectly centered around airports and most importantly, abruptly changes every 30 minutes, which is suspicious.

I wish we would have at least some debug tools avialable, so we could help to properly assess what is wrong and what is working as intended.

[Moach6908]

Picture’s worth a thousand words.

Metars DO affect cloud formations as you can see. That unnatural blob is where my destination airport is. You can spot it from space, just look for a caricature of the conditions stated in a METAR about an hour old, standing out like an infected boil in the middle of a world of weather that has no relation to it anymore.

Tell me, Asobo, is THIS realistic? This kind of thing was a BUG we grudgingly tolerated back in FSX (yes, 15 years ago) - And here it was somehow contrived as for a feature?!!

Now we all know MSFS can do much better, because we’ve seen it do so. We can even now see it do so again if we use weather presets.
Presets! Read: “Failure” - For that is what it is when real-world weather makes such appallingly poor use of the sim’s capabilities that even a static atmosphere can look and feel more authentic.

I wish I could yell at someone about this. What kind of an idea is this, to pervert nature and impose a heavily abbreviated, localized observation in place of satellite-gathered worldwide data that far better represents the things being observed?!

Really, injecting METAR over MeteoBlue is quite simply a BAD IDEA , I’m flat out of excuses to try and sugar coat it for you. The whole concept is analogous to suggesting one will catch a cold if he goes around sneezing too much. It’s effect before cause. It’s unnatural. Really, it’s illogical. No wonder it doesn’t work. Quite possibly, it never will

I find it befuddling that such a notion even passed basic scrutiny when first presented. How come nobody raised an issue with the so many obvious inherent flaws of the concept; What flight of lunacy was it that made it seem like a good idea to put the buggy in front of the horses this way?

My personal opinion is this: METAR INJECTION HAS GOT TO GO. It has so far ruined the sim’s weather all around. No possible benefits can ever justify the egregious harm it’s brought about.

Sure, there are a few out there who may have their reasons for preferring this incongruous reversal of the laws of causality. They are not a majority.
But future developments need not be so cruel to them as the recent ones have been to all the rest of us. We don’t ask for completely removing the metar system; JUST PUT IN A BUTTON SO WE CAN TURN IT OFF!!

[AndyXPO]

@Moach6908

JUST PUT IN A BUTTON SO WE CAN TURN IT OFF!!

I’d happily PAY for a feature that turned off the Metar integration and allowed me to go back solely to pre-SU7 weather implementation.

[pukigonzalez]

We have already paid this once.
If we were to pay again for what we had already bought once, it would be like buying a car and then the factory would order it back, throw things out of it and you’d have to pay to put it back.

The only thing I’d be willing to pay for is an improved hyper-super weather engine that is better (much better) than the pre-SU7 one, with correct and varied clouds, smooth transitions, correct visibility depiction and proper live weather (of course I don’t expect 100% accuracy, that’s obviously impossible).

The pre-SU7 weather would be a good basis for this, but unfortunately for now it seems that the guys want to patch the METAR implementation, even though the METAR implementation itself has made the situation worse rather than better.

[ZodiaLight]

@Moach6908

METAR INJECTION HAS GOT TO GO.

The key word being injection. Meteoblue using METAR and other real world sources in their models to improve the forecast is good.

What needs an off button is the sim injecting and blending METAR data on top of the super computed weather provided by Meteoblue.

The following was stated in the recent Q&A. If the sim is doing the blending at runtime then I see no reason why METAR injection can’t be optional.

“And then there is METAR data, which is pulled quite regularly for all the airports around you. And then, this is blended together. And the blend code is pretty long, because it’s blended differently depending on the data source.”

“So it’s a blend at runtime of data from different data sources.”

[Zeanuck]

@pukigonzalez

it would be like buying a car and then the factory would order it back, throw things out of it and you’d have to pay to put it back.

Isn’t that Tesla’s business model?

I just started using REX weather again after uninstalling about year ago when it was having FPS issues. Now it looks amazing, I should have take some pictures last night. At EGSS the metar stated towering cumulus with lightning. Using live weather, it was clear and sunny. Yup, not a cloud in sight. Then turned on REX and the weather was exactly as depicted. I even grabbed a IRL shot from a webcam, and yup, REX matched the weather perfectly.
So I’m going to keep running REX and see those issues from last year still persist. IMHO

SU11 UPDATE: REX just isn’t as good as I thought…. Sigh…

[DementedCorn327]

Totally agree that by removing METAR it wiil remove bubbles, hard transitions and improve clouds but it will not bring back automatically the Live weather as we had before SU7. They still need to work on clouds depiction and variety. Flying over the ocean now where no METAR exists, clouds are still unrealistic.
Atlantic, west of france

Over Manche

How do you classfy those clouds ?
They are too transparent, no defined shape, creamy, that is what we get most of the time, looks like generic and unrealistic patterns.

[Moach6908]

I read this again, and found it bears noting that as a game developer myself, I’m usually the first to call out how rant-style posts are a very unproductive form of bug reporting… Normally, that is.

But now, this is no bug. This is a Misfeature. I.e: A deliberately contrived setup, born of such misguided reasoning that the end result is indistinguishable from a bug.

Take it back to first principles: Why are you trying to force weather into compliance? What powers are these, which so demand that nature conform to scheduled specifications? Is it because of VatSim? That is what we reckon from the scant communication there is.

Ok, VatSim; A handful of people requires the weather to match METARs at such and such airports.

Fine. Now, is there really no other way to achieve this? Perhaps without massively overcomplicating and thoroughly handicapping an otherwise very satisfactory weather simulation?

Maybe if, oh, hey wait - Turns out, VatSim has its own source of weather! There’s a lot of flightsim apps out there that have this listed as one of their weather feed options

So maybe we could just add a switch that allows players to choose if they wanna use the VatSim wx data instead of the default one.

Yes, much more sensible. A simple toggle option to select between MeteoBlue and metar-based weather for those few players who might need this kind of thing sometimes;

Oh, of course, that’s much more practical. Much simpler too.

Phew, can you imagine if we hadn’t stopped to think first? Then we’d have jumped into coding a ludicrously convoluted attempt at somehow reconciling two unknowably divergent sources of data, at the expense of undermining a core system critical to the overall enjoyment of the sim…

Lols, yeah, that would have been a mess wouldn’t it?

…Oh, wait…

[AndyXPO]

@pukigonzalez

If we were to pay again for what we had already bought once, it would be like buying a car and then the factory would order it back, throw things out of it and you’d have to pay to put it back.

Is it BMW that are going to charge for the things already installed (but inop) such as heated seats?..

[SealedVolcano50]

a post in the wish list sections should be opened for a toggle to switch weather data

[Perrry]

@DementedCorn327

but it will not bring back automatically the Live weather as we had before SU7

I agree, but if they also bring the pre su7 weather system back as it were it would. Completely revert back to pre METAR weather. That would be the best visual/behaviour weather update since release to me LOL.

[DementedCorn327]

If they decide (and can) to revert back the pre-SU7 code then yes. And from there improve the areas of weather engine that still had room for it.

[Perrry]

Yes exactly, Why the need to completely overhaul weather to implement those unrealistic clouds circles in su7. Can’t understand that decission. I bet nobody asked for that even those that requested it.

Well, here we are and i can’t give advice to improve METAR thing. With the new system we will only see improvements of transitions. Because thats what METAR weather is, hard transitions to stay accurate.

[Moach6908]

Just goes to show:

Can we PLEASE now have a button to turn those things OFF?!

That kind of stuff is positively game-breaking. It caused me to interrupt my flight and come back here to stress the problem yet again. I will not resume that flight, the moment is gone, the experience ruined.

Please note that don’t care at all about “…we can make it blend better…” - That’s not it.
Any “upcoming improvements” on that front are of zero interest for us.

We need the option to turn that METAR blending stuff completely OFF. And not on the next-after-the-one-following-sometime-maybe-next-year update, no, we need it three updates ago.
However, lacking Time Travel, we’d be very grateful to have it in SU11.

Please, desperately PLEASE – Treat this as a high priority!
METAR Injection absolutely CANNOT be a default setting, let alone it being the only option.

[DementedCorn327]

Yes, 1 more good example of those METAR bubbles on the weather radar. I am not sure if before implementing METAR they really studied all the repercussions it could have on Live Weather depiction. Looks like they did it quickly and by a (new ?) team that maybe does not have enough weather knowledge to understand what was gonna happen. They should have let METAR as a beta functionality without releasing to the public and make extensive testing. Mixing 2 sources for weather results impossible, broke everything and made more people unhappy than happy. Meteoblue has all data they need to depict a realistic weather system, they should have thought to another option to integrate VatSim/IVAO legitime requirement, as you mentionned in one of your above posts.