I’m 90% sims (MSFS and iRacing) actually 100% currently.
I’ve only used VR in MSFS 2020. But a problem for VR in general that I haven’t seen addressed in this thread so far is in games/sims other than MSFS, the wearer’s movement through the game/simulation. MSFS is ideal in that a pilot is relatively immobile in the cockpit except for movements of the head and limbs. But in a game like Half-Life: Alyx with a G2, the user would be tethered to a cable and need some clear floor space to move about a bit. The more substantial movements through the game space must be done by teleporting. So, any experience where you have to drag a cable about and move in a special way will not be very popular. Although there might be enough WMR enthusiasts in MSFS to give MS pause about what it’s doing, I think the problem with VR is the overall popularity of VR and how well it can be integrated into popular everyday games. I see that in 2022, Activision-Blizzard offered a VR version of Warzone. Did that make enough of a splash to impact the future of that franchise and VR gaming? Creating a killer VR version of a premium game might help VR sustain itself, but the utility of VR in MSFS isn’t going to do it.
P.S. VR should also work relatively well in racing games if it were destined for wild popularity. I haven’t kept up with Forza Horizon, but just skimming the Internet, it looks like VR is possible in Forza Horizon 4 but not 5. The number of Forza Horizon players is probably double or triple the number of MSFS 2020 simmers. Maybe the success of VR in Forza Horizon is giving us an integrated answer to the cost, experience, and ease of use of VR to gamers in general. Maybe improving that will improve the future of VR.
1 Like
No, Forza Horizon never had VR in any version.
1 Like
Yeah, it looks like all the stuff I found in a quick search is Clickbait. Like this one, where you have to scroll for miles to find the answer is “NO.” Ultimate Forza Horizon 4 VR Guide | Drifted.com
Too bad. I have various Forza Horizon editions and think VR would be great in Forza. But maybe even more nausea-inducing than MSFS when you spin out, etc., as you’re visually much closer to the scenery, and it’s changing more rapidly around you than in MSFS - that may be the limit to VR in Forza: you just can’t get good enough screen generation for the speed and resolution desired (showing my ignorance here).
Many racing sims support VR for years already. The serious one like iRacing, more casual as well Project Cars 2, Automobilista 2 and many others. Some serious racers prefer triple screen setups, some prefer VR.
As the scenery is simpler, with strong enough PC and right headset you can even achieve 120Hz refresh rate.
How much $$$ is that?
I’m MSFS guy with 7800x3D, 4090, Pimax Crystal ($5000-$6000, including Crystal) and I achieve 35-45FPS in MSFS. For racing sims and 120Hz you must ask racing guys.
My brain is slow moving, as required for gentle GA flying, I can’t perceive the difference between 90 and 120Hz.
I am absolutely appalled by Microsoft’'s decision to cease support of WMR and the fact my £600 HP Reverb G2 might become a paperweight in only 3 years or so…
I’ve been a Microsoft Flight Simulator user for every edition since FS2 in 1986, I’ve used it for fun and also to get me through a commercial pilot training course and am now an airline pilot for a major global carrier. Make no mistake this decision is a big deal because the HP Reverb G2 is widely regarded as the very best headset for sensible cost that you could use for PC based flight simulation. I’d go so far as to say that the HP Reverb G2 is the single biggest leap in flight simulation technology in its entire history. It manages to perfectly hit the sweet spot of price and performance without going for excessively high resolution which brings even the latest computers to a grinding halt.
Truth is you can get nice performance from the G2 on middleweight gaming hardware - and that matters to the tens of thousands of avid flight simulator fans who bought one. Truth is kids buy the Quest to play different games whereas the hardcore FS fanatics bought the G2… I run FS2020 for fun but in fact use XP11 and the Toliss A319 for preparation and practice for my jet flying career - and it’s utterly brilliant - take that from somebody with thousands of hours on commercial jets and hundreds of hours of full motion professional simulator time… As a training aid it’s so good I’m in the process of writing an article for our Flight Ops department magazine highlighting the benefits of VR PC based flight simulation to augment commercial flight training and I know that this is something our Flight Ops department are very interested in… Millions of pounds could be saved if this has the potential to reduce the number of sectors of line training required by new entrant pilots.
Microsoft are alienating a huge swathe of their core flight simulator customer base with this move and they have certainly angered me and many others for sure. The big question is if it would be possible for somebody to write an equivalent software package that will enable WMR headsets to be used into the future? I don’t know how many WMR headsets are out there but I’m guessing it must be around 100 000 or more. Even if this software sold for say £50 I would buy it for sure because it would be vastly cheaper than buying a new headset. £50x 100 000 = £5 million revenue - a tidy little earner for somebody with the IT skills surely?
But is it technically possible?
Birdseed007
7 Likes
contractual partner for all Reverb G2 is HP… arent they obliged to provide a functional device ?! if so for how long ? if MS decides to deconission parts of their OS, its HP task to overcome and provide support for Windows 11.
not a future windows 12 of course.
1 Like
So far there is no information that MS is going to remove WMR from Win11. They announced it won’t be included in the future version of Windows (Win12?).
ms announced they will remove from their servers also for existing windows 11 think end of 2026.
It’s definitely possible because it is just a USB device and a screen. The main problem will be in figuring out how to talk to the thing. You will probably need binaries and docs from HP for that, or try to reverse the binaries that are there now. My estimate : two weeks, by someone experienced in the matter, to breathe some life into it. Another half a year to make it all work flawlessly.
I too would be happy to pay for a WMR third party developer package to support my G2.
1 Like
Totally agree.
@mbucchia : what are your thoughts on that? Is this something feasible for a grassroots-type small dev effort or would it be easier to develop an OpenXR runtime for the Reverb if HP supported it with specs?
Functional at the time of sale, and arguably for the duration of the warranty period, but not indefinitely, especially when it requires the use of another company’s services. If you were to buy a car with satellite radio, and SiriusXM shuts down 3 years later, would the auto manufacturer owe you anything? No.
It would be great if HP stepped up to find a workaround, but they have no obligation to do so. The only possible exception would be if they are still producing and selling the headset with the knowledge of this announcement. I don’t know if they are, but a quick look shows them out of stock on HP’s website and the only in stock listings I can find are random third party sellers that are selling used or maybe overstock/discontinued items. If this is still something in active production, then other factors would come into play that may change the analysis.
3 Likes
It cannot be done today, because Windows is taking over the device once you connect it, and the only way around that is a programmable EDID emulator (not the $20 cheapos, the $200+ ones). For that price, you’d better invest towards a new headset.
The way WMR is implemented, there are parts inside the OS, so for everyone claiming “just open source it”, they don’t realize that it will just give you a bunch of unusable code (because some of the most critical code like the compositor is inside DWM, and that’s not getting open sourced XD).
There are solutions like Monado reimplementing some of this code, but 1) they do not work on Windows (contrary to beliefs, the Monado support for Windows does not work with devices, only emulation), 2) even if you implemented the missing code on Windows, it is subject to the EDID limitation I listed above and 3) would not provide a user-friendly system (if you hated dealing with WMR, trust me you don’t want to deal with developer-targetted products).
Also, IMO, this effort is vain - you guys are way way overestimating how many people actually use these devices… The math above claiming $5m revenue is off by a ridiculous factor. I can’t share the numbers, but trust me, you are way way way off. Nobody is going to make real money building this.
By the time there can be a solution free of the extra investment (EDID emulator) or functional-enough (eg: Monado support), the device will be easily out-performed by other headsets (I mean, it already is today) and probably even cheaper headsets by then (something like Quest 3 is already there).
14 Likes
That’s a shame. Thanks for your input though.
Source? Thanks
see the very first post here