MSFS2024 is randomising the positions of the clouds for each person that spawns in

[MSGamerTag01]

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ISSUE DESCRIPTION

MSFS2024 1.2.11.0

Description of the issue:

Players can’t spawn in with the same weather, because some internal sim clock is already running moving the clouds independently for each person from whenever they started the sim.

The is a REGRESSION from MSFS2020 where the clouds only start moving when you load into the airport, and everyone starts with the clouds in the same places.

Provide specific location or coordinates:

Anywhere - here are pics for LGMG in Greece with a 30 knot wind from the South.

Two separate spawn-ins from the main menu. Wind is 30 knots from the South so clouds are moving North.

Provide time and date of the observed weather issue:

Jan 22nd 2025 NOON local time

[PC Only] Did you remove all your community mods/add-ons? If yes, are you still experiencing the issue?

yes

FREQUENCY OF ISSUE

every time on sim load

REPRODUCTION STEPS

Please list clear steps you took in order to help our test team reproduce the same issue:

1. Start MSFS2024, Free Flight, set plane, departure, Few Clouds, noon.
2. wait a variable amount of time
   3.Click “Start Flight” and sceenshot the view from above the clouds you’re given before swooping onto the runway.

Quit back to the main menu and try and get the clouds in the same position on any other load. If seems some ‘cloud position’ clock is always running while you’re in the main menu / world map, so it’s random where the clouds are going to be when you actually click “Start Flight”.

This causes the following issues:

• in Multiplayer - different players want to see the same clouds in the same places. In MSFS2020 our workaround for this has been to coordinate the ‘Start Flight’ over a Discord voice channel but that workaround no longer works in MSFS2024.
• Simply two players wanting to fly a flight in the same preset weather - they will have the clouds in different positions too.

SUGGESTED FIX:

Ultimately we need something that enables us to repeatedly get the clouds in the same place for multiple players (or the same player) hitting “Start Flight”

Don’t run the ‘sim clock’ until the player enters the sim. This would be as in MSFS2020 so has a usable workaround.

There’s a much more comprehensive fix which is to link the cloud positions to the LOCAL TIME IN THE SIM, i.e. scrolling the time forwards and backwards in the sim will move the clouds. This has been done in other simulations but it’s likely to be tricky to do that in MSFS.

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For anyone who wants to contribute on this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
•

[MSGamerTag01]

A bit more diagnosis:

Here are two screenshots from the cockpit spawning into LGMG at noon from two separate runs of MSFS2024

• Start MSFS
• Set start airport LGMG
• Set weather Few Clouds
• Set in-sim time to noon
• Clicked “Start Flight” (all these steps done within 1 minute of entering sim)
• Screenshot the view out the cockpit.
  (then return to main menu & exit the sim. Rinse and repeat)

Given the Asobo internal knowledge of what the sim’s doing, it’d be super-useful to learn of a practical workaround if one exists. We have coordination via Discord working quite well with groups of up to 30, so anything using that would be doable.

Or if the weather engine is initialising the cloud drawing algorithm with truly random numbers, maybe those could be derived from something fixed we can seed e.g. the lat/long of the start airport so the cloud starting positions and development are repeatable for a given group flight.

[MajorDad4262]

Same here, this is super important to get the same thermals, rain, etc. not only between players that fly together, but also to repeat a flight with the same conditions every time.

[FF403]

I agree . This worked beautifully in 2020. Synchronising the sky start position and subsequent progression to the sim local time would be the ideal solution for all multiplayer flights.

Given multiplayer flights mostly start at the same airport and use the same (custom) weather preset, either one of these - or both in tandem could be the seed for the sky start position

Synchronising to sim local time would allow latecomers to make a radio call to find out what the current sim time was and make the sky adjustment by moving the time slider.

[auspoundy]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
• YES

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• Not necessary. The repro steps demonstrate it.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
• n/a

I fully agree with the original post, what would be IDEAL is that Asobo provide a mechanism for users to “start” the weather progression at the same point each time.

Without this, multiplayer (of any type, but particularly gliding) no longer has the same feel because you’re facing constantly changing weather starting points. Ideally, say you’re sitting on the ramp in your 172 next to another player in their 172, you both want to see the same clouds in the same spot, so you can both avoid them on climb-out. That’s realism…

[SimSoaringClub]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
• yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
•

[efbiaye69]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
• yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• not really need, OP is explanatory

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
• n/n

[Chewwy94]

Thank you for the bug report.

We have created an internal ticket to see if our team already has this logged, and if not they will attempt to reproduce the issue and create a new bug report. This item is now marked as feedback-logged. If there is an existing bug report or one is created, we will move this thread to bug-logged.

[ConsularBuckle4]

I have a question about the context of this “bug”. Does, and should, MSFS design assume and provide that every user, regardless of how powerful their computing platform is (I.e. Xbox-s or a high-end PC), should get exactly the same weather representation?
If yes, then this is a terrible news for the fidelity of the atmospheric simulation.
Would it be possible that this limitation only applies to active multiplayer sessions?

[arniex78]

@ConsularBuckle4

I have a question about the context of this “bug”. Does, and should, MSFS design assume and provide that every user, regardless of how powerful their computing platform is (I.e. Xbox-s or a high-end PC), should get exactly the same weather representation?

Apparently not - because when you read it it seems as if the clouds were “randomly” generated - which is even worse! :-)!

[MSGamerTag01]

@ConsularBuckle4

get exactly the same weather representation

The bug report is regarding the “weather” (i.e. the parameter specifying the position of the cloud layer and where it should be in its cycle of development) rather than the detail with which that is rendered graphically in the sim (if that’s what you mean by representation?). Certainly lower performance PC’s or Xbox can have that rendering dialled-down e.g. clouds may be less fluffy and rain effects may be simplified. FWIW the “weather” is defined by relatively few parameters including the position and development of each “cloud layer” (the cloud layer drifts with the wind). Computing the rendering of each cloud layer is a bigger deal, offloaded mostly to the GPU, and can be varied according to the compute available.

The point is two different players (or the same player twice) should expect to get the same weather for a given preset. This only matters to people that might like to repeat a flight, compare their flight with a friends, or (as you mention) fly in multiplayer. For solo folks that never load an agreed ‘flightplan’ + ‘weather preset’ this might sound unimportant, but it’s central to a lot of MSFS-aligned online communities.

MSFS generally does this quite well (i.e. load the Scattered Clouds preset, set the wind to 10 knots SE, and you’re going to fly in the same weather as someone else).

But currently in MSFS2024 e.g. with a low broken cloud layer you could have the airport socked in (good aviation term that) while your buddy has good viz on the approach. Same cloud layer, but different position.

[SimSoaringClub]

Two different sim sessions. Same airport and weather preset (not live weather).

Notice how the cloud locations are completely different.

This is problematic for repeating/comparing a flight and a showstopper for multiplayer gliding.

[arniex78]

Someone has to explain this to me - it has been said repeatedly that satellite images are used for the cloud visualisation - so how can it be that clouds are at different locations ? Then it is actually “cheating” - apparently animations are simply used, which then run randomly, at least in the METAR areas - then of course this explains a lot of what has been complained about in various threads regarding weather - Live Weather, maybe Asobo mean ‘no preset’ - but then it has nothing to do with ‘real’ weather!

[AlexL934]

Same issue as the OP.
Three images all with same preset, airport departure runway, and time.
First image (top left) at 13:15 (real world time).
Second image (bottom left) at 13:18 after going to main menu and relaunch flight, with same “cloud map” but cloud position advancing with time.
Third image (bottom right) at 13:23 after restarting the sim, with new random clouds.

Having the same clouds location in multiplayer is very important.

[MSGamerTag01]

@arniex78

Someone has to explain this to me

the sim is painting a set of cloud layers matching the broad parameters given in the METAR or Custom Preset using a modern graphics technique designed to produce natural-looking fractal, i.e. random self-repeating, shapes (it’s called Perlin Noise, if you want to look it up). Note the graphics algorithm paints the entire cloud layer, not just an individual cloud, and a particular advantage of the technique is it mainly runs on the GPU.

It’s nothing to do with satellite photographs. The global weather info is provided as a collection of those fairly sparse ‘METAR’ observations, often located at airports. When you use ‘Custom Weather’ you’re effectively flying with a single global ‘METAR’.

[Scip2009]

The ‘live wheather’ only means, if it rains outside, it is likely raining in the sim at the same location. If there is scattered clouds in the sim, look out of the window, you’ll likely find those, too.

In general you can take it like that: If you are watching a particular cloud outside in the sky, there is no technique in the world which will bring that one into the sim. Satellites are not working like observing the whole skies in real time in order to bring you a realtime cloud situation everywhere in that detail.
You see clouds outside? You see clouds in the sim.
The satellite imagery resolution will reach something up to several hundred meters, maybe there are locations that go below that. But, that does not allow recognizing a cluple of particular real life clouds above you in the sim.

The visualization using satellite images only help the algorithms creating clouds in general at that location where there are some in real life.

This also applies for wind, temperature, humidity, and so on.

But ponder the resolution, that finally forces the sim to paint its own picture. While busy doing so, the sim obviously forgets about consistency over time.
Keeping that in mind, the situation meantioned above becomes clear.

[arniex78]

Many thanks for the answers!
The question was only meant ironically - how the whole thing works is also roughly clear, but I think only the Asobo developers know that (or are you employed there?) - that’s not the point. I don’t want to prolong the discussion - it’s a ‘bug reporting’ forum - but there’s even nothing groundbreaking as advertised (in point of weather depiction) and I don’t know if that’s exactly what he meant, but I can only quote him @ConsularBuckle4 - “If yes, then this is a terrible news for the fidelity of the atmospheric simulation” !

@Scip2009

In general you can take it like that: If you are watching a particular cloud outside in the sky, there is no technique in the world which will bring that one into the sim. Satellites are not working like observing the whole skies in real time in order to bring you a realtime cloud situation everywhere in that detail.

that was clear and it wasn’t meant that way - but as I said, thanks anyway!

BR

[Scip2009]

well sorry for that, I didn’t mean to lecture you - just did not get that
but hey, we seem to be on the same page

[IrieGibbonz]

Mainly posting to +1 & bump this in hopes this gets more votes.

From a subjective standpoint this issue is immense and killing off a lot of my online fun at the moment.

It’s not just that me and my friend “see” different weather:

Given it’s often freezing cold outside currently and the virtual planes we choose aren’t equipped with Anti Ice Systems, avoiding cloud layers is paramount to us.
In FS24 that often results in us having to split up and finding our individual routes to the next airfield rather than flying “together”, killing off all the “immersion” we please so much from flight sims.

[MSGamerTag01]

We’ve been hunting for workarounds but so far without success.

There’s some subtly different behaviour if you go into Activities and select something before heading into the World Map, but we haven’t found a way to exploit that to get the same clouds in multiplayer.

If this is being worked on, I have a suggestion:

Make available a new SDK event e.g. (>K:INIT_CLOUDS) which snaps the preset cloud layers to some consistent position and development status.

It’s absolutely reasonable the cloud distribution being a pseudo-random pattern but Asobo could trigger that INIT_CLOUDS event when a flight starts and programmers/add-ons might also provide a bit of value-add for that capability. It’d be tempting to do something a lot cleverer but that event has the attractiveness that it does the simplest minimum so shouldn’t be a maintenance liability. We have a 15-minute get-organised-in-the-lobby prep period for our multiplayer flights to support the MSFS2020 cloud sync at spawn in, an init clouds ‘event’ would mean we could walk around on the airfield while we’re waiting instead. But hey, if we just get the cloud sync on spawn in that’d be great too.