No offense intended to any of the posters but I have to ask what are we doing here?
MSFS has seemingly sunk to new lows with giving products like the MiG 15 and Su57 a channel for sales on the marketplace. I fear for the state of add ons in MSFS and what Asobo/MS is trying to accomplish with the sim beyond divorcing young people from money in their wallets.
The criticism of this product has been well documented and AH needs to decide if they want to be taken seriously by sim fans or if they are in it for a quick buck. Simple as that.
Letâs give them a chance to make that decision. They obviously made some PR mistakes but they can easily make up for that in an update to the aircraft.
You miss the point⊠It isnât so much the update, we/I are well versed in waiting for updates⊠We have been waiting for SIM updates since the sim was released. It is the communication that is the problem. Delivering what they should of delivered or in other words giving us what we paid for (I got a refund) is not going to make anything right. Showing their customers some respect by communicating will go a long way⊠and not saying this week for 2 weeks and again not communicating is what needs to be made up for!
In return, no offense right back but⊠welcome to the club. You are just showing up with XBox. You will need to realize one thing - it hasnât âsunk to new lowsâ. It has been there all along when it comes to aircraft on MP. Want to know what Week 2 or 3 release on the MP was? Kitfox by BT Studio. At that time there were TOTAL maybe 10 add-ons. Not aircraft, I mean, EVERYTHING. You want to know what banner Marketplace had back then? It was âOfficial Contentâ, not Marketplace. That aircraft was a circus and didnât work well, and it doesnât to this day. You think this is some sort of conspiratory vendetta against XBox users? It isnât. Itâs just been the MO from the start. Then, Eurofighter Buffoon showed up on MP. It has been a long, steady road of low standards of what MS considers OK to be released on the Official store for the sim. Nothing has changed, you are just new so this all seems to be some sort of a dig at XBox. I recommend an end to that thinking. Itâs a unified issue affecting ALL users of the sim. It has been a Marketplace issue, not an XBox issue.
How this relates to AH Electra? This is but a number in a long line of BS releases for the sim. While AH certainly lowered their standards and reputation with this aircraft, this is actually miles above whatâs been shown with others. That MScenery clown has released his MiG in the Spring - a couple of weeks after his first abomination - the F-18 (which is still not on the MP, though I feel itâs coming)⊠That F-18 showed text from MB-339 on loading screens because he forgot to remove it - he used IndiaFoxtEchoâs Aeromacchi as a âtemplateâ⊠that was a SimMarket exclusive, generated a lot of noise and unpleasantness and no one here in our wildest dreams would have thought his stuff would ever end up on the Marketplace⊠until it did. So, welcome to the show!
Yes, I am beginning to realize all you have said. Xbox is just in a worse place because there is no access to 3rd party installers, mods, etc. And yes, I wasnât around for the kitfox, so these Russian jets are a new low to me.
I was more getting at we should probably direct energy at a different problem for a while and see how AH responds rather than beat a dead horse.
But I will be keeping an eye on any progress for when/if this hits the marketplace because it is an aircraft that gets me excited.
I would buy that excuse if it werenât selectively applied. AH communicates on their Spitfire thread. Milviz communicates on all of their threads. Just Flight does the same. The Islander thread has near daily communication. The GTN 750 thread is daily communication.
Saying hey simmers, we hear you, we understand the issues, and just to let you all know we are Working on them/Looking at them/Investigating them/ Insert whatever non committal response you like, is not support! it is acknowledging your customers.
They in my opinion did not make this plane, I am 100% convinced they farmed it out, they are embarrassed of it, it is not their usual standard. They had this going on with the spitfire and they farmed it out. If that is the case they should own it.
They could communicate here (and many developers do) without having to use this as a support forum. The fact is AH has been active in the thread for their Spitfire (and the one for their 140 before that) but pointedly ignored this one.
Decades to make and develop a good reputation. And but a few minutes to ruin it. Hard to believe. I am a big fan of AH and have been for many years, but this silence on here is deafening. I encourage them to open up and say something. I want them to do brilliant in this new simulator if for no other reason than to bring out my beloved De Havilland Chipmunk.
In AHâs (very slight) defense, BB and DCD are making current (or relatively current, in the case of the F-14) aircraft, where itâs much easier to get the real (and spatially-located) sound recordings for them vs. a 70+ year old plane that doesnât have a huge number of flying examples left.
That doesnât mean the sound couldnât have been a great deal better than it is, even with legacy FSX sound, mind you, so your point is still valid. Just that the likely cost in time, effort, and money for doing WWise for this aircraft is greater than for most.
This website is not the centre of the flight sim universe, and no third party developer is contractually obliged to post anything here. They are entirely free to choose their own channels of communication, most of which existed decades before this website was launched and all of which are well known to their existing, pre-MSFS, customers.
What forum have they been using for decades to communicate? Their website certainly does seem decades old, but i cant find any other forum where they are posting on the Electra.
Sorry but for MSFS the platform they have Cleary jumped on tooâŠbecause we all know lots of money to be madeâŠit is either here on this forum or AVSIM⊠What is SOH⊠the MSFS forum has 958 posts at the time I cheeked and it looks like it was designed for Netscape navigatorâŠ
You really do them no favours⊠If I were them I would give you a life time of releases to keep you quietâŠ
I mean did the conversation at AH headquarters go down like this?
âHey guys, I got a great ideaâŠno PR guyâŠI want to speakâŠLet me speak⊠I want to do PR!!, So you know how the official MSFS forums has like 1000âs and 1000âs of users and probably our customers, or that other site, yeah you know the one that has been going yearsâŠyeah AVSIM, thatâs the oneâŠWell guys, here is my great ideaâŠLike lets not even post on those forumsâŠI mean isnât that a great ideaâŠyeah yeahâŠI know I am amazing at PR right?? yeah lets post in like the forum with smallest user poolâŠyeah, yeah, yeahâŠI know PR Gold rightâŠok PR guy you are firedâŠsee ya! in fact lets not even post at allâŠIâm so happy I am great at PR and I work for AHâŠright?..i mean ya seriousâŠright, PR gold babyâ
Not knowing about SOH says more about you than it does that site, frankly. If the site design is dated, thatâs probably because it actually is quite old. I posted in their forums in the FS2004 days and I remember the AH crew being regulars at the time.
I wouldnât set metaphorical foot on the Avsim forums myself, that place has all of the âcranky old entitled menâ problems this forum does cranked up to 11.
As others have said, AH has no obligation to participate in any forum, and they are free to pick and choose which ones they do participate in, even if the ones they prefer are less popular. Itâs strange that they participate on this forum to talk about some releases and not others, though.
I am blown away by this âthe fact that you donât know about Sim Outhouse says a lot about youâ thing. Whatâs so good about it? I am registered there so I can download a couple of planes otherwise not available. But why would I post there? They may have been around for centuries and they obviously look that way too. Why should it appeal to me to post on some website even MORE ancient than AVSIM that hasnât bothered to make itself look somewhat newer than 1995? Am I a masochist? Should I enjoy looking at their eyesore forum because of some hipster factor? I mean, AVSIM already has hundreds of people like their admin Ray who canât seem to refrain from switching every subject to how FSLabs wonât give updates on Concorde for P3D and is woefully resistant to even TRYING MSFS⊠why would I want MORE of that? No offense to Ray, he seems to be a good dude and I had some good Concorde conversations with him but⊠I donât revel in some weird fetishism of being surrounded by crotchety old men (and I am not a spring chicken myself at 44 years old)⊠Fact is, there is very little appealing about that website other than some weird nostalgia trip to the days America Online used to be a thing.
I didnât say anything about the quality of SOH either way. The fact is though itâs a long established site in the hobby where a lot of top payware and freeware developers have posted or still do post. Itâs not at all an obscure site to long-time simmers and the AH devs have been participating there for 15+ years so it isnât like theyâve suddenly sought out some obscure site to hang out in to hide or something.
I am not sure what the point of your tangent about crochety old men on Avsim is. I said above I understand why developers wouldnât want to post there given thatâs the prevailing atmosphere there. It doesnât describe SOH though regardless of the age of the site itself, or it certainly never did before. In fact in the FS9 days I would say that if anything the community there leaned too far in the other direction where pointing out flaws in releases was seen somewhat as ruining the positive vibes.
Let us make it easy on AH. Please AH tell us where we may go to find the support, information, and respect we hope for as your customers. Provide the URL here and we shall go over there to communicate with you. But we do expect meaningful communication. Simple.
the MSFS forum has 958 pots, thatâs why its of no use⊠and clearly everyone is here, except AH or is that only when convenient on a plane by plane basis.
âpositive vibesâ As customers of this release there is little to be positive about sadly, except it is positively sub standard. I cant even be positive that any of it will be fixed, âthis weekâ 2 weeks ago, no communication etc, oh wait there is, but on site where nobody goesâŠ
I mean, AVSIM already has hundreds of people like their admin Ray who canât seem to refrain from switching every subject to how FSLabs wonât give updates on Concorde for P3D and is woefully resistant to even TRYING MSFS⊠why would I want MORE of that? No offense to Ray, he seems to be a good dude and I had some good Concorde conversations with him but⊠I donât revel in some weird fetishism of being surrounded by crotchety old men (and I am not a spring chicken myself at 44 years old)⊠Fact is, there is very little appealing about that website other than some weird nostalgia trip to the days America Online used to be a thing.