I’ve been playing on my Xbox S and am trying to learn how to do ILS landings with the Cessna Citation. I’m having an issue where I’m being lined up to the right of the runway on my landings so I end up touching down about 10 feet off the runway. My process is - set up a departure and arrival airport/runway in the main menu, select low or high altitude flying. When I take off I set the autopilot with an altitude and hit the Nav button so the plane automatically turns according to the GPS. When I’m in my approach I hit the Approach button to let the plane automatically line up to the runway and the angle of descent. Maybe I’m not hitting that at the right time, not sure.
Does anyone know why I may not be lined up to the center of the runway on landings?
Some ILS localisers are offset for various reasons - the main reason being obstacle avoidance. This requires the pilot to take over when required to line up with the runway due to the angle that the offset ILS localiser causes. The glide slope is not affected by this, so disconnect the autopilot when you are past the obstacle or when you are confident of continuing manually. Make minor adjustments only. A stabilised approach = a good landing. Try practising both visual and ILS approaches, and learn what to look for visually - focus on the runway end to keep your plane centred. Practice makes perfect. If you think you are going to have a botched landing, go around and try again. There’s no love lost doing that - in fact it’s the mark of a safe pilot.
The problem is that the offset is wrong in 99% of the ILS approaches in MSFS, because the offset angle is missing and you are simply flying on a parallel track.
Are you setting up your course correctly? I haven’t had any of those problems with MSFS causing wrong localiser info. I fly the FBW 320 into YSSY, KSFO, YMML, YBBN, YPAD, YPPH, RPLL, RJAA, WSSS, KJFK, EKCH, EHAM, EGLL, EGNM, EGKK, LFPG, LFMN, LFML, KLAX, KPDX, CYYZ, CYVR and hundreds of others without that happening. The only offset I’ve encountered was into WADD Bali where there is an intentional offset to RWY 9 to memory.
Turn off GPS and use NAV for ILS approaches. You don’t want GPS interfering with the ILS. Also, make sure that you are tuning the Nav1 to the right ILS frequency (go online for plates) and runway course. The FBW MCDU automatically implements the right course, but not sure if the Asobo planes do. But I believe that in the Citation you need to be in NAV (not GPS), set the ILS freq and course manually then hit approach. I don’t fly that plane so I may be wrong.
As [CatapultF4E] has mentioned use NAV for ILS approach. Once turning final I always switch to NAV mode (with the ILs tuned to Nav1) and then hit approach.
Not sure if I’m doing it wrong but I’ve only used GPS and the approach button for RNAV
If the aircraft has a course knob, use it. I don’t fly the Citation so I can’t say if it has a course knob until I get home and fire up the sim. Many aircraft require course input either in FMC/MCDU or on the MCP.
Either way, the pilot should always take note of the course and any offsets in order to make a safe landing.
Again, it doesn’t matter which course you set on the CDI, FMC, MDCU or MCP!
(I’m not aware of any aircraft which doesn’t have a course selector)
Fly the LFMN ILS 04R and you will notice that the localizer course is identical with the runway heading.
Due to the offset antenna you will fly the approach parallel to the runway…like in 99% of the other MSFS offset cases.
Unless you are in an advanced airliner approaching an airport with a CATIII ILS, the ILS is not intended to fly on autopilot all the way down to the runway. In general you should take manual control of the plane when you reach your minimums. I mostly take manual control when I see the runway and only use the ILS for additional information in order to help me to maintain a stable approach. I would also suggest to learn how to do proper ILS approaches on a smaller aircraft. The high approach speed of a Jet adds a lot of difficulty because you have to be on point from the start and there is not much room for corrections.
Absolutely this. Real world pilots tend to take the AP out once the runway’s in sight.
Real world Pilots LIKE hand flying (to maintain their manual skills - which are perishable) - with the ILS there as guidance/ confirmation of stabilised approach, etc.
Either you hand fly the approach or not. Regardless if you can see the runway or not.
In low viz conditions it’s actually the other way round.
You don’t disengage the AP as soon as a part of the approach lights and/or the runway is in sight.
You wait as long as possible until you’ve got as much visual cues as possible.
Yep, I should have added - viz needs to be at the acceptable level with no likelihood of decreasing during the approach. I would disconnect generally at 1000 radio - regardless of minimums unless seriously in LVP conditions.
Definitely not enough just to see the lights at the threshold - I want to be able to see to the end of the runway and beyond. So really, we’re talking about CAVOK.
In the initial post the user mentioned a 10ft offset, that’s a small correction that can be easily made. Even when you are already well below Minimums.
Thanks everyone for the feedback, this is my first post on the forum and I’m pretty overwhelmed in a good way with all the thoughtful replies. I’m going to take all this help and try it with a flight tonight.
One question, because you all seem to know what you’re doing while I learn. So the way I taught myself on one of the smaller, slower Cessna’s was to plan my departure and arrival airports/runways in the flight planner screen before launching the flight. Then, after take off I would hit the NAV button with AP engaged and the plane would fly the GPS route to the arrival airport/runway. A few of the responses here have said to fly with Nav instead especially on the final approach. What is the difference, since when I hit the NAV button it uses GPS?
Even that is a relative small correction that is absolutely no problem to fly. I am an IFR rated Pilot, and when you hand-fly an ILS in low visibility and windy conditions, popping out of the mist / clouds at minimums offset from the runway by 10ft is no reason to Go Around, you just make the correction and land on the center-line. I do agree that most ILS should be centered and that Asobo should address this issue.
The ILS is much more precise. If the aircraft doesn’t automatically switch from GPS to NAV during the approach, you need to manually switch to NAV1 at about 10-15NM from the airport.
I wouldn’t consider an S turn at 100-150ft a stabilized approach, which means go-around.
This kind of questionable maneuvering might work with a slow GA single at 80kts, but not with a jet.
In any aircraft that’s not a professional way to fly IFR.
This ‘no problem’ attitude has killed a lot of pilots.