Night lighting issues still present - The community solutions

Rural areas are a problem, roads lit that should not be but the fact is its primarily roads that are lit at night with street lights that are placed at set spacings along highways. So yes, you are going to see a lot of dark areas surrounded by lit roads with a relatively uniform spacing of the lighting because that’s what the real world looks like.

And sorry but the glow in the dark textures that we had in the pre-patch version did not5 look remotely accurate. The fact is fields do not glow in the dark they are pitch black, as are deserts, I dont care how realistic you felt it was, feeling is irrelevant, its what looks real that matters.

Agreed. I think we should have separate buckets (precise) language for each issue. Otherwise, we get part of the fixes.

Well in their efforts to please us they lost their way at some point and their ‘‘taste’’…

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I really don’t understand why they couldn’t have just gotten rid of the sepia mask textures and left everything else alone?? Like the lighting looked great before and would have been fixed, had they not messed with the physical “light bulbs” that were already lighting up the streets and roadways. Now we have double lights showing up everywhere and they are a hundred feet up, lighting up the world unrealistically.

Not pleased the way the sim is going graphically. All they had to do was fix autopilot, copilot and flight models, sepia mask at night, and leave the graphics as they were at launch and they would have a great sim… It’s like they keep messing with things that are not broken, and they are breaking them. Asobo, get it together. Everyone’s patience is running out.

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Well said…

Τhank you for this. I agree 100 percent with you on all of your points. Seems like the devs and people should look at real nighttime photos of cities and rural areas and do their own comparisons.

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Then you would have complete darkness for everything further away than just 2-3 km, which was the old lamp distance before Sepia mask starting to take over… That would NOT look good.

Or, we could’ve stuck with the lights in early alpha which looked stunning compared to now, but which got severely reduced because a lot of ppl “felt” it was too visible, “nothing like real” , “kind of like x-plane”, and again with no real examples or factual arguments on how it actually looks in real life, not just how it “feels”
Then light distance got killed and Sepia Mask got introduced.

I totally think we would be better of improving from the early alpha lights, instead of screaming “nothing like real life” , motivating devs for drastic change instead of improvement. Now we’re close to the same situation again.

(Up until update 5, it looked like major cities har suffered from major power outtage combined with nuclear wasteland glowing in the dark after the drastic changes from early alpha.)
I’ve been looking at some old cellphone photos I have from shooing approaches in Houston, and can identify highway lamps stretching 40 kilometers away, while in the sim those lights fade away after just 2km, being replaced with the Sepia toned daytime-texture…

Here’s early alpha from almost a year ago, compared to the release candidate, up until update 5.


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With the amount of graphical downgrades from launch, I’m becoming more convinced it’s deliberate & has something to do with the Xbox version they’re working on.

Whether it’s a need or want to have matching builds across both PC & Console, what they’re doing is just wrong. The game at launch, whilst having it’s problems, looked far better then it does now in many area’s. They shouldn’t be taking away what most people didn’t have any issues with.

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Regarding rural roads now being extremely visible now with their lamp visibility range increased…
Maybe this could be partly tackled by sampling pixel-value from the NASA Black Marble Data, and base lamp placement on how “bright” that area should be.
I just tried this in QGIS using OSM vector data, placing lamps, different types depending on road-type. This of course created illuminated rural roads in the middle of nowhere, just like it is in MSFS right now.
But then I adjusted brightness/placement depending on Black Marble brightness value for each lamp position, simplified making streets illuminated with lamps if within a bright pixel on the Nasa mask:

First, the NASA data, which Asobo has so far used as a light mask painting the daytime texture in a monochrome brown “sepia mask”, evenly illuminated huge areas with no consideration to where lamps actually are (majority along roads)

Second, here’s a light texture I generated placing different lights along road vectors depending on type, very similar to what we have now, rural roads lit up everywhere, instead of just close to cities.

Third, using the Nasa Black Marble as mask for vector-placed lamps, trying to place road lights only where they should be, leaving out roads lamps in unpopulated areas. This is getting pretty close to how it actually looks IRL.

It definitely looks like rural roads and unlit highways in unpopulated areas could be controlled using this method, but other data sets are also available, like “population density” rasters, but I’m guessing night brightness data would be the best, preferably in a higher resolution.

Asobo also mentioned that they where looking for higher resolution night data, but my understanding is they wanted to use this as a slightly more detailed “sepia mask”, which still baffled me as it’s a very flawed technique used for anything else than very far distances and at low viewing angles (far horizon) , where I doubt higher resolution would make any significant impact anyways, unless they still want to use the “sepia mask” for more than just the far horizon.

But there is also this problem, IRL most lamps being obstructed by houses & trees to varying degrees causing lots of variation in brightness and visibility, while now in the sim lamp visibility far surpasses visibility range of houses and trees, which will make all lamps in distance equally visible and bright, looking too uniform and artificial. RNG brightness/visibility during placement?

Also current “bulb-texture” is quite horrible for the job, more like big fuzzy orbs instead of sharp bright / “glowing” light source.

I was hoping all this would be addressed before releasing the update, but so far it’s mostly visibility range increased, while the rest will be done “down the road”.

So yeah, this is just one aspect of what looks wrong now, but I’m fairly certain we’ll get stunning results hopefully soon, especially if we try to be constructive rather than throwing nonconstructive hyperbolic / exaggerated statements about “being disgusted” or that it “looks nothing like real life”, “stopped playing” with no real deeper understanding of how it actually works/looks IRL. Nonconstructive “feelings” like these might just have them revert back to and settle for the sepia-mask based lighting instead of moving forward to more realism.

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Very well written, again. The secondary “rural darkness” mask from Nasa Black Marble, would actually be the most solid solution/way to go on solving this particular issue while maintaining the brighter “city/urban cores”! I just hope that the devs are listening and we will soon see it implemented into the sim!

Early build looks really nice… but look my friend how each part of the city (alpha build) has less or more bright lights .it’s not unified like it is now…
However were the light bulbs in the alpha build looked bigger than normal?
At that angle when you fly you don’t see all the lights because they are covered by buildings…
What if they intensified the light on the buildings?

We need to put more votes here, the lighting is really terrible.

Vote this up guys!

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You guys shoud triage photos that are clearly long exposure shots. The best way to compare is to get videos from people recording inside the planes.

This update 5 trashed the night lighting. It became arcade, like shiny dots in sequence, similar to what I see in X-Plane videos.

Before this update, it was a real pleajure to flight at night. I felt the scenary was real. It could have improved, yes, but trashed? No. What we have now is arcade, crispy dots like beads on a necklace. Yes, the old lighting had it as well, but only when necessary. Now I know I’m flying in a game because I look outside and the city is as bright and crisp as the lights inside the cabin. My whole screen looks like a Christmas tree. Hard to even fly. In fact I’m surprised the art department gave the nod for this change.

The video below could be mistaken by MSFS before update 5.

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Before was way more relaistic. Now it looks like X-Plane, just crispy beads spread around in a grid. Ruined immersion for me.

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The one prior to patch 5 is absolutely beautiful, like i see when i travel at night.

The important thing here: It WILL NOT solve the problem JUST decrease the intensity of the lights, the center of the blocks should be less lit than the main streets, because that is how it is in real life, and what makes the night flight real! (just like the ScenicAtol3300 print).

I’m almost sure that asobo will just make the lights more random and less bright, they won’t pay attention to that detail.

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Exactly this. The night lighting quality has significantly diminished after patch 5.

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It is disheartening to see these things just vanish into arcade street.

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Totally agree, and that’s what Asobo put together themselves before starting to listen to the non-constructive nay-sayers. sad to say it looked better with more realistic lamps almost a year ago, how amazing it could’ve looked now if improving from there, instead of completely throwing that and creating something drastically different. To realize they shouldn’t have listened to that in the first place, and almost back to square one, close to one year later.

But the early alpha suffered from the same problem of illuminated rural roads, and definitely (but not as pronounced) uniformity-issues, but those can be solved, without the need to kill 80% of the lamps you would see in real life, and replace it with the Sepia Mask trick that only trick ppl not understanding how it looks like IRL and understanding light is emitted from lamps, not the whole city glowing in the dark.

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Hardly… In the video, you see lots of point lights and the rest is black. MSFS before update would look like a brown daytime-texture of the same area, hardly any lamps visible in the distance, and many parts that IRL would be black, would be fully visible due to the Sepia mask.
Don’t get me wrong, the current version has plenty of way to go, but it’s a good start to tone down Sepia mask and bring back light visibility to more realistic distances. But this illuminates new problems like the uniformity, lack of variation, roads that should be dark wrongfully having lights, that definitely needs addressing before it starts looking awesome again.

image
Somewhere halfway in between the old and new would be a good way to start.
Remove Sepia Mask, increase lamp visibility range.
&
Reduce bulb size, remake bulb texture, reduce size but more sharp and with glow.
Introduce more color/brightness variation to simulate uneven obstruction in distance.
Reduce groundsplash brightness.

@LipeZaitsev, @LovesickChief13, @SeaW0lfBis and anybody else that doesn’t understand what was wrong with the earlier versions: I recommend you to have a look at these posts to better understand why the “old” lights was in the top5 of the most topvoted bugs. It used a very simplistic “trick” to fool some players, but hardly realistic if you look closer and understand how it looks IRL. Light comes from Lamps. Everything else is dark. You’ll never see unilluminated features glow brown in the dark like it did in those earlier versions. Period. It look horrible now, I agree. But understanding what’s being done and why, it will become obvious that this is a step in the right direction, even though it looks bad at the moment (due to postponed adjustments. Yes, it shouldn’t have been released until all adjustments where in place)
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/terrible-night-lighting-after-patch-5/310086/126
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/night-lighting-terrain-emits-light/178647/52

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''But the early alpha suffered from the same problem of illuminated rural roads, and definitely (but not as pronounced) uniformity-issues""

And what happened then? Did most of you, the alpha testers, gave them a feedback and they changed them to the night lighting that we had in August? Can you give us an insight of that period?

One thing is for sure, the overall “brightness” issue appear to be somehow the lighting got doubled or tripled, People have already called out the doubling by the lights stacking in the air on each other, but mainly what I notice is the secondary roads are REALLY out of control, lights doubled now in areas they shouldn’t be to begin with.

This is route 60 in Virginia, a “highway” (not interstate), 2 lanes each direction divided by grass median. As you can see in this pic, it appears they put "light poles in each lane about 10 yards between. IF…IF this road was even lighted, it would be 2 sets of poles, on the outside, spaced probably 50-100 yards. This is lit up like downtown.

Also the odly placed “clumps” of lights. Makes no sense.

I think it’s an easy fix for all the lights, whatever you did there just at least dial that back where it was before. I have to assume light generation/placement is a seperate piece of code from the sepia / bleed issues right? Maybe a hot fix?

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