[Official Discussion] Famous Flyer II: Gee Bee Model Z and R-2

THAT is actually a good point for discussion. What I have observed was a YouTube video of what I think I remember being either a Cessna 140 or 170 (real aircraft, not sim). The cat filming it was teaching to push it forward on takeoff in order to get the tail off the ground ASAP which gives you rudder authority. Honestly, for most taildraggers (170, 140, Corsair, Spitfire, Waco, etc) THAT seems to be the technique that gives me the most control. If I can get the rudder to respond nicely, I am golden. I have trouble seeing the benefits of keeping the tail on the ground. Do you care to explain why? Granted, most of the places I am taking off from have LONG runways, so I donā€™t care about space much.

Edit: I found itā€¦ This is the video:

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Reading my post, I need to clarify - the reason I call it bad advice is that I think people get the impression they need to force the tail off the ground before it is good and ready to come up. Iā€™m not saying never apply forward pressure during takeoff; just donā€™t do it from the get-go. Once you have some airspeed, go ahead and nudge the tail off the ground if that works for you. If you watch spitfire videos, they do it all the time. Mustangs tend to be the opposite, where you can see the back pressure being applied and reduced to neutral as the plane speeds up.

Not all taildraggers are the same. As I mentioned, with light aircraft that can takeoff quickly (like an Aeronca Champ) thereā€™s more freedom for differing methods. Even so, here the opposite advice is given: Tailwheels and Crosswind - Part II - YouTube

I also wasnā€™t clear about the window of time with holding back pressure for the Gee Bee. Hold it back until it wants to come up. In the case of the Gee Bee, it is really quick - a couple seconds. But within that short period of time a gust of wind could come along and momentarily pull the tailwheel off the ground. Then the wind may push the tail to the side, not to mention all the other factors of the engine torque and p-factor that would tend to point the aircraft off the runway. In a case like that, you do not have enough airspeed for the vertical stabilizer to mitigate these adverse factors as effectively as if you had just held the stick back. You are rudderless. By keeping the tail on the ground, you can prevent this.

you donā€™t lift the tail off the ground you ā€˜fly the tailā€™ - you let it come up so as to change your wingsā€™ angle of attack and pick up airspeed. Holding the tail down prevents the wing from flying, essentially ā€˜stallingā€™ the wing and allowing drag at the same time. Letting the tail fly also gives you more rudder authority sooner than otherwise.
Flying off the runway in a three point stance is possible with a tall tailwheel strut where the aircraft is not in an extreme stalled wing stance while the tailwheel is on the groundā€¦or when the headwinds are strong or the aircraft has extreme performance (thrust to weight) ratio.

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Just wondering, do both models of the Gee Bee allow for using default Asobo avatars? Iā€™ve only seen the Carenado-made pilot in review videos, but no one seems to have commented on the issue

Well, now donā€™t you wish youā€™d said ā€œIā€™d love to see someone give me a billion dollarsā€ instead? But oh well, you used your wish!

Itā€™s shockingly well done for freeware. Gonna see if I can alias the Gee Bee audio to it, as the sound is pretty weak, but the visuals and flight model are really nice.

Iā€™d love to see a way to integrate the Gee Bees and the W-W 44 into the Reno module. Obviously allowing freeware planes opens a potential cheating door, but if it was set up as a ā€œcasualā€ arena, perhaps with Asobo approving and checksumming third-party planes, itā€™d be awesome to simulate 1930s-era air racing.

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you have to know I was mightily surprised when the author PMā€™d me once he had uploaded it to flightsim.to and I agree - it is shockingly well done!

And I agree on your Reno statement as well - but Iā€™d be happy if 3rd party scenery developers could use a Reno mod including the lap timer and objects to make their own airfields and courses. How cool would it be to have the Thompson and Schneider Cup courses available to fly - each with all the attendant scenery components and atmosphere?

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For me it is very difficult to land this aircraft because I donā€™t see what is in front of aircraft :pensive:

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The brits figured out how to land a Corsair on a carrier. Come in towards the landing in a slight left curve to keep the runway in sight. Perhaps the same works in the Gee Bees?

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This is how I have been landing the Gee Bees and the Model 44. Fly a tight pattern and close final and you can see the runway until just the last few seconds. From there you look out both sides and try to stay in the middle. Historically, these would have landed in a big grass field, so consider that.

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Eddie Rickenbacker during WWI came up with the standard pilot procedure of circling the airfield (as noted by Sal1800 above these fields were just that - no runway - just an open field with maybe a windsock so pilot either on the ground or orbiting the field could know which way was ā€˜into the windā€™)
This practice stood until the CAA (later FAA) established a complete training and regulatory agency.
This is why at un-towered airports you donā€™t ever ā€˜fly straight inā€™ - same with water landings. The idea is that you fly at least one length of the runway to check for obstacles, aircraft, personnel, large animals etc before making final and touchdown. Eddie Rickenbacker established the practice of orbiting the field before landing due to a high number of accidents and deaths at his own airdrome, when exhausted pilots returning from sortie would just drop right into departing warplanes or obstacles in the field

Trim behaving like flaps?

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What difference does this make? Airspeed wise the aircraft responds the same.

A piper cub can do some amazing stol takeoffs and landings with a 20+kt headwindā€¦

Also why carriers donā€™t just point into the wind but make way

Significant headwinds make a difference in aircraft performance on the ground is all I was saying

Of course it shortens the ground roll but it doesnā€™t affect whether a tail dragged is able to perform a three point take-off or not.

Are there any plans to allow us to use Asobo avatars with the Gee Bee? Even the Staggerwing, also a collab with Carenado, allows usage of the default avatars.

Itā€™s been nice knowing that Asobo-released planes (completely in-house or collab) allow the option to customize our pilots/copilots. MSFS has been great with enabling diversity and this just seems like a step backwards :frowning_face:

Hello @MilonRouge,

I have already passed on this feedback to the Dev Team. I donā€™t have an update to share at this time, but this is something that is on our radar. Thanks.

MSFS Team

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But youā€™re going to want to have the goggles and scarf when flying a bird as old as this. They had a tendency to throw oil on the pilot.

Thanks so much for letting us know :slight_smile:

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Pilots would enter the plane on a side door in the fuselage. The cockpit is pretty small so you will have to be smart about looking around the plane during takeoffs, landings, etc. The Gee Bee model Z has a better view than the r2.

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