Opinions that matter?

One who does not talk a lot normally, but is watching closely like hundreds (perhaps thousands) of others, and then is compelled to post a long and caring observation:

Hopefully the “woodwork” will be vacated, and finally flight simmers will keep speaking out the truth of what they understand about this situation we are in.

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What did people expect? A perfect flight simulation that configures itself automatically, downloads scenery with better quality than OrbX on a slow internet connection and integrates every 3rd party package, as well as navigraph, vatsim, weather, flightradar24 etc. And of course all should be completely free, perfect and bug free from day 1. Have I forgotten something, maybe that the sim also flies the plane, installs itself and makes coffee?

The game was announced last year, and released a lot earlier than expected. Someone took a risk because the market was tired of railroaded AAA games and literally begging for early access to this sim.

Would they have preferred if it had been delayed until 2026 like Falcon 4.0, IL2 CoD or Mount and Blade 2 to just name a few, which often had similar problems even after 6-8 years of delay?

Imo Asobo took on a very ambitious plan of developing a new flight sim in very short time, and by releasing now also a great risk of embarassing themselves. Right now i don’t see any indication is an embarassment. But it is clear that Asobo has a lot of work left. I just can’t help but admire the work that has already been done.


Couldn’t have said it any better. Check mate and the nail in the coffin for those hater posts disguised as “opinions”. In the end, anyone with an IQ higher than 60 should realize this by themselves.


Although I agree for the most part on what has been said above , I personally think anyone who has given over money for the sim is entitled to an opinion. Let’s face it, unsatisfied customers opinions bring to light failings that need addressing, that would otherwise be glossed over or blindly accepted by the fanboy mentality.


An issue is that this sim, more so than any others, has attracted a lot of new blood. And they’re very vocal. A large number of them come from the video game world, and don’t “understand” sims. They don’t understand how these work, what their lifespan is like, and what the appeal is. That’s not to say they can’t have opinions, but many of them are misinformed or, frankly, factually incorrect. They’re also the ones that will move on after a month or two. This is a game they intend to support for a decade. It will only get better with time.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions. What i don’t like though is the way some people state opinion as fact, and then get all upset when someone disagrees.

Personally, I’m enjoying MSFS 2020. It has its flaws. It clearly needs more work . There were serious issues with downloads for a lot of people, and MS marketing hype clearly led some people into believing that it was going to be some sort of software miracle that reproduces the entire world in complete detail. It isn’t. It never will be.That can’t be done. But that doesn’t make it a bad purchase for me. I’ve got in around 75 hours of flying so far, in three weeks, and I’ve barely scratched the surface. Money well spent, as far as I’m concerned.

If other people regret spending their money, I can only suggest that maybe they should exercise a little caution, a little patience, and a little scepticism about marketing hype next time. Newly-released software of any sort of complexity always has bugs, and the realities of the entertainment software market encourage publishers to push developers into releasing things sooner than they’d like. So if your money really matters that much (which obviously, it will to some more than others) don’t buy just-released software. Wait for a month or two, to get a better feel for how well the product is suited to your needs. All you lose this way is a few weeks on the sim. There are no prizes for buying something first.


I started simming back when MSFS98 came out. I stuck with MSFS until I pretty much just moved on after MSFS Century of Flight… Just got bored… didn’t have money to really invest in more than just a yoke and single screen, etc. Last year I started to get more interested in simming again now that I have 2 boys and we took our first flights to go on vacation and one of them took a real interest in airplanes and flying. Any who… what I wanted to add is that from what I remember most of the prior MSFS releases were definitely more polished in terms of their aircrafts’ systems. Autopilot worked, you could navigate VORs because they had all the frequencies in the sim, and ALL the promised features were delivered Day One. Now I do remember the initial release of MSFSX was AWFUL, but it was due to performance and crashing and nothing to really do with systems.

Now jump forward to MSFS2020. Yea it looks pretty ■■■■ good. Better flight model, better graphics. However where is at least one airplane where all of the basic avionics systems is minimally functioning? Where are all the of beautiful satellite photos of the Caribbean Islands and beaches and coastlines shown in the developer series? Where is the live winds/weather in North America?

Several highly touted features are either very broken, or are simply not even present in the initial release. They pushed it out the door and took advantage of the current world situations for a money grab if you want my opinion. I can’t blame them for wanting to take advantage really, but at least deliver on what you promise and I don’t believe they have done that.

Sure most if not all of these will get fixed and people a year or two from now will be telling all the new comers who complain about the default aircraft not being a PMDG study level that “Hey at least you weren’t around for the initial release!” Everyone will have a good laugh but right now its not that funny :laughing:.

I dont know why his opinion should matter as it seems he hasnt even tried the sim and is wrong in many aspects. Everyone who cant see how “realistic” the physics are in comparison to P3D and FSX is just blind or has never flown a real GA plane himself.

The physics in the game are outstanding, better than any sim i tried yet. BUT the FLIGHTMODEL of the planes cant really show this off yet but you can see or feel it in certain areas.

Somehow, peoples are still confusing the physics of this engine with the flightmodels of the default planes, which i agree, are a bit off in many aspects. However, once we have a really accurate flightmodel we can finally see the full potential of the physics.

Fly a C172 or C152 in the alps, feel the turbulences and up- and downwinds and you will see what i mean. But anyone who just flies the A320 with autopilot on will miss most of this great physics anyway…


Everything else you said, I can agree with, but this:

I Would not know about the full truth in the matter of exactly why MSFS was released with such blatant omissions, bugs, and issues.

But for the record and to urge us all to keep asking for the reason why we have so many bugs, omissions, and issues:

We could most certainly blame them IF this (‘taking advantage’) is the case. Or do we say, ‘we cant blame one who steals (takes advantage of) from an elderly person they are supposed to be caring for’?

Taking advantage is taking advantage and it is never nice or good. Always with selfish and evil intent. It only does harm, but in the end it does more harm to the offender, this is absolutely certain.

In the same way, the phrase “its nothing personal” is a plain lie in every case, because business in made up of people and people are personal.

For the others who hate the fact that somebody has an opposing view that really matters:

Either way one tries to explain it away, a bad business decision will always have bad consequences. For live weather to not function in a flight sim, is top 3 worst things that could happen. We are at week 3 and not even a glimmer of hope in sight for correcting this gigantic flaw. Airplane and airport issues round out the top 3. If we went to top 50…well this forum is very full of all the issues, bugs, and omissions already…I wonder why?..oh yea they are “whining cry babies”…yea that’s it. :roll_eyes:

The reality is, “potential”, NOT the actual product or substance, is being defended by many. I don’t see the sense at all, because NONE of them know anything about the details of what will happen in the next hour or minute, yet they boast about potential in 2 months or 10 years. The blind leading the blind, in my view — pun not intended, and was going to be removed but, at the same time it was intended and kept because the mood needed to be lightened a small degree. I truly do care about everybody here, and I do care about the success of MSFS.

Well I was meaning that if they were going to take advantage of everyone staying at home to release a product that was completed as advertised.

Maybe the point is that it wasnt a bad business decision. The game is selling well and the vast majority of us are loving it.

MS/Asobo have delivered 95% of what they promised. Complaints about the flight model are extremely exaggerated, and there has been a plethora of people screaming that the sim didnt deliver on “implied” expectations because of the “marketing campaigns”. The best example is the lack of “study level” default planes. They were never promised, ever. Many members of the community have themselves to blame for leaping to unfounded conclusions of what to expect on delivery. If you actually listened to the what the developers said in their press events, the delivered product tracks very close to everything that was described.

The sim is gorgeous, the default planes are better than what we started with in FSX, XPlane, and Prepared, we have a great weather engine, etc, etc. Asobo has put out a roadmap of whats coming, and there is no reason to doubt they will deliver. And even if it doesnt the community is already making insane strides in just a few short weeks delivering downloads that will be stopgaps to cover us until they do.

The griping here is like a new homeowner who just took the keys to a gorgeous home on a hill with incredible views complaining that a few of the outlets dont work. You definitely call the electrician to repair the issues, but you dont say f the house, its terrible, I’m going back to my old crappy apartment where all of the outlets work… See the forest for the trees.


They will expect what was advertised. And rightfully so.

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I’m one of those, and was not expecting the so called “study level” airplanes.

For the record, I certainly expected bugs.

But… Not even delivering correct values in aircraft config files. Is a big NoNo. Specially since they had direct access to the manufacturers, the airplanes, specs and AFM / POH’s.

The G36 has the engine as 4 cylinder and incorrect values, the Citation Jets values are all messed up, etc. How could that pass a simple aircraft test or basic QA?

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To be honest I didn’t have the highest expectations before launch and was positively surprised. Been using flight sims for 20+ years and have come to expect frequent CTDs, blurries, stutters etc. In X-Plane I’ve barely flown the default aircraft at all so I can’t really give an objective comparison.

For me simming has always been about tweaking and fine-tuning for the overall best experience, which has always been some far off unrealistic nirvana that I do not expect to reach. MSFS holds a great deal of promise with its innovative use of today’s technology.

I find the weather systems are amazingly well modeled (except for winds). After 3 weeks I still get jaw-dropping experiences with this sim. Yes some of the flight models are off. The airplane systems are basic but surprisingly sufficient. I’ve done IFR VOR to VOR flights in remote corners of the world in the Caravan and TBM without issues. Shooting RNAV, VOR and ILS approaches successfully. To be honest I didn’t expect this level of functions from default aircraft at launch.

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I don’t think its too much to expect weather to work and autopilots to function on a basic level - without this 95% of the SIMULATOR is incomplete and totally flawed.

But since a majority of people here love it, I will continue to call it a photography game, because it is only good at screenshot taking.

Its likely never to get much better, since its so good to so many.

IMO autopilots DO work on a basic level. Sigh…

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Perhaps you never used a modern autopilot? Perhaps you are referring to a 1970’s-2000’s era AP? IDK.

But try this basic in the C172 G1000 - an IFR flight with orig to dest airport -use ATC - and no pre-loaded approach (like streamers do). So when approaching the airport, get the runway in use, and use whatever instrument approach procedure is given by ATC. Load the PROC into the autopilot and let it fly that procedure to the IAF and complete the approach down to 200 feet…simple enough, but not possible in MSFS. The Autoflight system takes you far away, maybe will take you to your departure point, so you can run out of fuel (??). Well at least you can take more screenshots.

If the 172 G1000 did not have synth vision then it may not be right for someone to criticize the PROC or VNAV functions as basics - but synth vision is great for a screenshot advertisement huh? Now we know, and the Autoflight system is held to that standard.

But anyway, this basic AP functionality, defeats the purpose of the screenshot taking game that has been released - it has all it needs so you can take screenshots, and use workarounds to unrealistically fly IFR. Excuses for the AP and many other things abound all over the net.

It is obvious in the extreme that single pilot IFR flying and monitoring an instrument approach down to minimums is only for whiners and cry baby’s.

Who will win the debate? Screenshot takers will win because this is NOT a flight sim.

Not a sim ? Sim lite maybe , but a sim all the same . Everyone has an opinion , and are entitled to them . Does that mean, that everyone with an opinion, are correct in their own assumptions ? Answer = NO .

You are free to call it whatever you want, doesnt mean you’re right.

And “its likely never to get better”? … Please …Its also already getting better with community mods and an upcoming patch that is addressing the winds issue (not sure what other weather issues you’re having… especially considering the lack of anything else even close in any of the other sims).

The argument is sounding tired.

I’ve said it before that calling out bugs is important and should be done, but the hyperbole of claiming that the sim is worthless and just a “photography game” simply because some of the autopilot buttons dont work as well as they’re supposed to is a bit of a stretch.

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That’s true for sure. I’ve got a PPL but only occasionally flew airplanes with autopilot, albeit only HDG and ALT hold :sweat_smile:

In X-Plane however I’ve flown extensively in G1000 and also 738 cockpits.

My point is that the autopilot / nav systems are good enough for getting around without any major issues. I can fly ILS approaches down to minimums from IAFs. I’ve tried some RNAV approaches but VNAV does not seem to be modelled. Sooner or later more in-depth 3rd party aircraft will surely be relased, that will satisfy the needs for more advanced systems.

It’s not so much that we disagree I think but that we have completely different points of view :wink:

And by the way (it’s probably unwise to mention this but here goes…) I LOVE taking screenshots in MSFS. I’ve never taken so many screenies in a game/sim, whatever one wants to call it. I also LOVE aviation and simming. One thing does not always exclude the other.

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