After so many scam addons we need the opportunity to get our money back. This would also give the developers motivation to make better products.
We need a simple and quick way, directly in game. Just like in “Fortnite”, as an example.
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For completeness I am including here a link to the official statement on refunds for purchases made in the marketplace:
https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015885580-Refund-Cancellations-
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this has been discussed and proposed many many times before so I suggest using search:
But the gist of it is:
- refunds are generally possible but difficult. IMHO it’s not worth the hassle.
- just because a product is badly made, it is not necessarily a scam. So far I have seen no real scam products. However I have seen several pretty bad ones. But making a bad overpriced product is not a scam.
- many of the controversial products (Bredok3D 737, CS 777, VirtualCol EMB 175 etc) are hugely popular both among buyers and modders. So there seems to be a market for badly made jetliners
- Microsoft, Simmarket or FlightSim.com just provide a platform to sell products. So it’s not their job to refund you something you don’t like. Also software is difficult to control. As soon as you install it there’s currently no way to check whether a customer actually stops using it. That leaves companies totally open to fraud.
- people like BostonJeremy do reviews of the products. So there’s no need to cry foul for customers. Customers have duties as well and one of them is to check with the community and read the reviews to be able to make an informed decision before buying. People do the same thing for all other kinds of products. Buying something blind and just assuming it’s good is naive IMHO.
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Waiting a day or two for someone to create a video of the product is all that’s needed.
Regarding third party purchases from outside the MP, if it were me I would ensure my purchase was on a credit card, and if the company refused a refund you request the bank perform a charge back.
Things can get pretty ugly with these. I seem to recall a user doing this to Valve, and they got their money back but they locked out their entire account.
With a small website, there is far less risk.
I’m unsure as to how digital purchases fit in to this though.
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Totally agree. I mean it a basic consumer right in many countries that you have the right to return products below standards or that you don’t like within a reasonable period.
I’d personally say steams 14 day or 2 hours use policy is good. Why we can’t get a refund button that gives us the refund that once the log book recognises 2 hours of flight the refund button disappears, ideally with a warning 5 minutes before letting you know. The only plane I own I would want a refund, had I not got free in sale, the Eurofighter and honestly, that quality should be refunded to people who pay
An alternative option is to leave money on the deposit for the next purchase.
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Is this not called mind reading? Or the ability to know ones heart/intentions?
If we just make a blanket statement like this and make this a rule of thumb, scammers will take advantage. Companies that never scammed before will see the profit in starting to scam a little and more and more.
Making bad and over priced products can be considered a scam, unless we are able to know everything in the heart and mind of the developer to verify otherwise. I mean is not making something bad a deliberate action, and is not overpricing something a deliberate action?
Yes but scammers can develop a network of people to do reviews too. This is easier today with the “no negativity political correctness” foolishness these days. This stuff is defended in most forums and businesses.
So consumer rights are slowly (going to be quickly gone) slipping away and scammers rights are increasing, or how can one say ‘making a bad overpriced product is not a scam’?.
The love of money is humanity’s undoing.
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Either that or the possibility to have some sort of free trial. You can download it for one or two hours then in order to continue using it you will be promoted to buy it.
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PMS5 does that with the premium version of their GTN750 addon.
They give you a code that is active only on one Thursday. Then it expires.
I wish they’d allow the code on ANY day - for one day. I can’t fly on Thursdays (for reasons…)
I’m all for this. It’s easy enough for them to disable mods you purchased in the store. There’s so much video game level trash being churned out these days targeting the crowd that flies in external view.
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Honestly, a Steam like, no questions asked refund inside a limited window is the only realistic way of stopping shovel ware appearing on the store.
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I hate that it’s generally left to the end users to police the quality of mods, but that’s the world in which we live. Before I buy anything I research the heck out of it, but that still doesn’t guarantee that I’ll be happy with the purchase. As noted here, some sellers make mods that don’t have options A, B, or C and that upsets some, but others are fine with it. I’ve used the example of a modded cabin - some would give a plane a 1 without one, and others couldn’t care less.
We desperately need the ability to add comments to our ratings, but to be honest I don’t see that happening because it could lead to lower total sales. I don’t see a money-back policy either, since as others noted the possibility of rampant fraud would be a big worry.
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I think a trial or ‘test flight’ would make the most sense.
What if each account gets a one time use day pass or a total of a couple hours of use time with any given add on or at least aircraft before purchase?
I mean for me that is absolutely not enough time if I like an aircraft, so if I like it I’ll buy it. Honestly this would probably end up meaning I buy more aircraft, not less. I mean I know I would try all kinds of stuff for kicks and end up getting hooked on planes I wouldn’t have otherwise bought.
And that would be a great weed-out for ■■■■■■ add ons without the slippery slope of putting Micsobo in charge of weeding out sub par developers. If it sucks, people will try it and then just not buy it. If people are trying it and then buying it, well whatever it is it’s worth it to someone.
This just seems like the best solution, it’s great for new developers that people might not know or trust yet, it’s good for good developers where the quality of the product speaks for itself, it’s good for Micsobo because honestly I bet it ends up meaning more add ons sold, only person with the short end of the stick are people making ■■■■■■ add ons that promise more than the deliver and that’s what they deserve.
Plus I understand why refunds are challenging with some money going to Micsobo and some to the third party that all needs recollected, also the timeframe could be weird because I mean I know for me there’s plenty of planes I’d like to spend some time with but probably not be something I use a ton, so then what if I bought it and used the hell out of it for a month and returned it when I got bored of it? That’s not fair to the developer.
A test flight or trial just sounds like the most straightforward solution, and provides a natural mechanic to weed out ■■■■■■ and scammy add ons.
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Honestly with the amount of info out there about every add on why would you need a refund.
In UK consumer law there is the “Caveat Emptor” 'Buyer beware".
Its on the purchaser to do due dilligence that the product they are buying is of Merchantable Quality and fit for its intended purpose.
You can indeed get a refund if the product breaks or isnt fit for the purpose it was intended.
But in sim should you really be getting refunds?
You have every oppertunity to check videos and discussions about almost every product availiable.
Just because its either to diffucult to fly for you or you change your mind and want something else isn’t a valid reason to get your money back.
Just stop impulse buying, be carefull and deliberate with your purchases.
As for those members who obtain a steady flow of free products because you refund everything, SHAME ON YOU. Devs work hard to give is nice things and you just want them for free. And yes im talking to certain people and they who know who they are.
In short, do your research, watch videos, read reviews and forum posts, be grown up about your purchases.
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How do your think that “info” gets there? Some poor sod has to buy it to see if it’s any good. I believe BostonJeremy has taken one for the team very often in the past.
Let’s say for argument every single person follows your advice. Then no “info” gets out there because no one has bought. At least one person has to buy it sight unseen, judge it, create a video or post a website article about it, so that every other person in the world can now follow your advice.
What you suggest is a nonsense. Refunding is the only way to make things right.
And if you got the product for free? Well, depending on how big your channel is, your views have already been bought, and paid for.
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Alot of the YT reviews are of copies GIVEN to the reviewers by the devs for free as promotional material. Thats how MOST of the reputable reviewers do it.
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Those people should also be forced to declare whether there was a review embargo in place or not. It’s quite typical in the games industry to stop unfavourable reviews from harming day one sales.
I’ve refunded many titles on Steam, and saved myself a lot of money because of it.
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Tons of products never get a review, reviews work for some things but the majority never get featured.
I Have one product and the developer refuses to talk to me even though i cant use it, he just claims its fine for him. Never seen a review i even asked if anyone else had the issue and got no response. What makes this worse is that one of his other similar products is fine, the product i have issues with is Spitfire MkV Tropical Flight replica No one did a review on this
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I’m actually surprised this hasn’t been forced on Microsoft by the EU. As far as I know the only reason Steam has a refund policy in the first place was because of legislation in the EU. You either allow EU users to refund a product under certain circumstances or you can no longer do business in the EU. Valve folded, and the rest is history.
Perhaps Microsoft are preparing for this, or for whatever reason it has not been brought to the attention of the EU, but it certainly should.
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I’m all for a trial period. I can’t count how many software titles I’ve downloaded that have a 30-day trial. I usually end up buying them, because the research I did led me to believe it would fulfill a need, and it worked as expected.
Analogy: I’ve rented a lot of movies. I own a lot of DVD’s and Blu-rays. I even own some streaming titles that I first rented for 48 hours.
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