Performance optimizations are great, but what about making the most of your hardware?

Discussion Hub MSFS 2024
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When SU5 launched, there were a lot of complaints about “dumbing down” the PC graphics to make it run well on Xbox. I definitely agree there that there was a drop in graphical fidelity with this release, but also a performance increase.

We’ve heard that 2024 will bring “massive performance improvements”, which is amazing and I can’t wait, especially since this is so important for VR, which is the only mode I really care about.

But I would also be interested to know whether MS/Asobo could allow PC users to really get the most out of their high-end hardware this time. If “core simmers” are really as important to them as they say, it seems incongruent to make the PC version restrained by Xbox specs.

“Core simmers” by and large are on PC, I suspect. Of course there are probably many exceptions, but I feel on the whole this is probably a fair assessment.

Of course there should only be a single codeline, but I still believe it should be possible to allow for making the most out of the available RAM, VRAM, CPU cores etc, maybe also higher resolution textures or similar.

But I guess this isn’t something they’ve commented on?

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i think there is some misconception, xbox version is not related to the pc version directly, both share the same assets, but that does not mean they are the same in porting. so while xbox version can be more suitable on xbox, that does not mean we have some kind of degration on the pc version.

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Not sure I entirely follow what you are saying.

I have a 13900K/RTX 4090/64gb of RAM/4k displays and feel FS2020 crushes my hardware if I let it. When using an airliner with lots of AI at a busy airport, the hardware can barely keep up. Just today, the autopilot on the PMDG 737 disengaged on final approach to IniBuilds KJFK because frame rates were not stable enough.

I have my settings at a mix of High and Ultra and have never felt the hardware could/should be pushed even more with an Ultra-Ultra. I suppose FS could try to use more RAM but not clear what that would help given the main thread CPU limitations.

My current feeling is that either more computation needs to be moved to the cloud OR we’ll need another hardware generation (or, two) before the demands of the real-time sim are truly balanced with the capabilities of the hardware.

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When SU5 was released, several significant changes were made, such as loss of off-screen terrain caching, and I think the right-click hold stopping primary controls from working.

It’s may be mere coincidence that this was the update that the XBox version debuted. Neither of these issues have been fully resolved to this day.

I’m sure there are other things that happened at that time, but I forget off the top of my head. Search the forums for “SU5”, and other phrases to get a gist of what happened back then.

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See the reply below yours. Unfortunately I can’t pinpoint it much either, but there was a big drop off in overall visual fidelity around SU5. It just felt less “clear” and “sharp”, and “vibrant” . I think clouds also changed, becoming more blurry/grainy at times. And suddenly RAM and VRAM use was heavily restricted compared to before, although I think the VRAM thing is no longer the case with DX12.

People have been saying the visuals were best when it first released and there have been downgrades to things like clouds and scenery since then. I just picked SU5 as the most noticeable transition, it was a big broohaha at the time.

Here’s a thread that seems to summarize some of the issues at the time:

One big issue was also the introduction of shimmering scenery. This is still a big issue with TAA, especially in VR. Luckily DLSS has improved this aspect. There was a huge thread about it here:

Overall, I just don’t want the sim to feel like an Xbox port, I want it to take as much advantage of the hardware that people have spent their money on as possible. Sims “true” home has always been on PC. This doesn’t meant console players shouldn’t have it or shouldn’t be allowed enjoy it, but it should shine the most on high-end PCs, simply because they deliver the most compute.

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well, in general bugs & errors is a normal thing to have when an new update is there, thats why there is a feedback proccess after every update.

but not sure if that can be directly related to the xbox version, first the pc version was the main version & the xbox version introduced after about a year later. second, i dont imagine you need to implement xbox optimizations in a pc version if you were a developer. but sure everything is possible if certain specific things caused interference.

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I’m pretty sure you can still kneecap a 13900/4090 combo with the settings we have.

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According to Asobo, 2024 performance improvements will derive from the removal of physics, traffic and other tasks from the main thread. We will also probably have the final version of DX12, not beta anymore.
What happened with SU5 was different: it brought performance improvements through memory and VRAM usage reduction at the price of a drastic LOD reduction (that we are partially suffering even today), scenery assets caching and even color depth reduction in the first phase (you will certainly remember the hideous color banding). SU5 was probably rushed because the XBox version release was imminent and there wasn’t time to do things properly. SU6 was definitely better and since then the sim improved constantly.

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Oh, it’s possible to judge with our own eyes :slight_smile:
Of course this version of MSFS ran at maybe 60% of the framerate of today and in terms of CPU, RAM and VRAM usage would have been off limits for the XBox Series S:

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Which makes sense if the sim needed to be changed to better accommodate the XBox. There are too many issues that you can lie solely at the feet of needed to get the sim to work more optimally with a console controller.

A major annoyance of mine is the constant negative mouse acceleration. It makes sense as an option if you are using a controller joystick to make small deflections to try to click on a small cockpit switch. What it does is slow down the movements of the pointer. It feels fine on a relative positioning device like a joystick, but it feels horrible on a absolute positioning device like a mouse.

If you don’t know what this is, try the following. Either press the middle mouse button, or hold right mouse down, then as slowly as you can move the mouse across the surface of your desk. What you should find is that your view will have hardly moved, or not moved at all. This is because the smallest movements are simply cancelled out, but larger ones are not. It’s a truly horrible experience, second to only mouse acceleration.

That is another easy one to test, and I don’t think the sim has this. Butt the mouse up against the side of your keyboard, and make a note of what you are pointing at. Now move your view away to the right, or left depending on your handedness, then bring it back to that “home” position. With no mouse acceleration your view should be exactly the same. If you are pointing at something else then you have mouse acceleration.

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I know what you mean. I have a 12900KS with RTX 4090, 32GB 5200 MHz RAM and recently got an ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR DSC 4K Gaming Monitor, which is, I think, at the lower end of the 4K monitor range.

At high settings I get an average of 30 fps at EGLL with AI traffic ( JF Traffic) and All player multiplayer on. Though I’m experimenting with HDR. I’m not sure how HDR affects fps.

But yes, FS does punish my rig if I let it.

(Not sure if I like HDR, makes my screen a little too bright).

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There was a slight visual downgrade with SU5 which was quickly remedied. I remember that extra blurring.

Also, yes. The clouds changed at that point.

As for clouds, the best I can figure, they had to start over because clouds were too much of a performance drain and they just weren’t working as projected.

I imagine this did impact Xbox development as I cannot imagine the sim running on either system at 30 FPS with the old clouds. But let’s remember, the old clouds were ridiculously resource heavy. They were messing with almost everyone’s performance.

The old clouds impacted mid and low spec PCs, as well as high spec PCs, and this was a time when folks struggled to get over 30 FPS with good detail even on great rigs, and VR suffered. The performance was rough before SU5.

The best I can tell, here is what happened. They had to rebuild the clouds. Some folks on top PCs were upset.

Everyone else saw massive performance gains and the Xbox version could finally release.

Over the months, the new clouds have been developed further and improved to a point where they compete with the original clouds. Clearly they are made differently, but they are looking good again (with more layers to go).

We never had great graphics AND great performance before SU5, and the rebuilding of clouds was a key to improving performance on all systems.

But yeah, SU5 looked a bit weird and ran great.

I would be careful blaming Xbox for all things. The Series S and X are mid spec PCs. You can dial PC settings well below what you get on either console. They do not set the low limit for MSFS, they are a mid point Asobo must hit. MSFS released a year early on PC during COVID in part because you could just throw money at it to get it to run on PC. But if it weren’t for the pandemic, folks would have complained more because it came out a little undercooked. It was supposed to come out simultaneously with the Xbox version. And if it weren’t for the year delay, both versions might have released simultaneously with the new clouds and none of us would have been the wiser.

The vast majority of folks who played MSFS are on Xbox and us core simmers should be grateful to them. They help pay our bills and make MSFS profitable enough to be a AAA sim instead of a AA sim.

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that’s simply cuz the sim is heavily unoptimized for current day HW.
on the GPU side of things things can definitely be pushed hard still.
but as this isn’t a normal game but it does actual simulations it’s not easy on the CPU.
them adding multi threading support will yield big perf improvements in 2024.

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Don’t expect too high,
Maybe the extra performance of ms24, will be used for their upcoming live air traffic with real live liveries & its effect, live ship traffic, and other new features of ms24.

So in the end maybe we will gain nothing of fps, or even lower fps than ms20 :slight_smile:

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I’ve just realised why I was getting an fps of no higher than 30 with my new 4K monitor. This is with an RTX 4090.

On investigation I noticed that in the advanced display settings in Windows 11, I had the monitor refresh rate set at 60Hz. The monitor is 144Hz capable.

On top of that I had 50% monitor refresh rate set in FS.

I have set the Windows setting to 144Hz and now my fps is much better. :rofl:

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The performance issue is mostly caused by the bottleneck, especially CPU mainthread bottleneck.

I have i9 13900k and most of the time only 1 core is utilized at 100% and my GPU is only at 40%.

Until they can distribute more jobs to other cores, no matter how fast your CPU, it won’t impact much… The issue is in the software/codes.

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You don’t want all of your resources utilized all the time, that just creates more heat on your system and lessens the life span of your components. Hardware needs room to breathe too.

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For me I cannot think of the last time I had a component wear out before it exceeded it’s usefulness as a gamer.

Ride it like you stole it!

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Yes, we need better multithreading for our cpus and better dx12 for our gpus. With the right code this sim could be much better optimized. I am also looking forward to VR improvements.

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I have a lower spec hardware with 1440p and realized my RAM though rated at 3200MHz was operating at 2100 MHz due to default BIOS setting.

Just changing it to 3200MHz got me significant performance improvement with same graphics settings.