Mods are restricted in the single-player-non-competitive career mode because (checking my notes…) they want to avoid cheating so career mode is fair and equal to all
You can activate all kind of assistances in the competitive Challengue Leage mode
Yeap, everything checks.
EDIT: I mean, it is ok to admit that the only reasson (or at least the main one) is to boost marketplace usage. It is completelly fine and in nowadays is actually how every other game works. We might not like it (I don’t), but there is nothing wrong with that, is business policy.
I agree it’s good to come on here and make a point but at some point it becomes one guy hijacking the thread.
There is another way to do this, which we did with the simrate issue. When the simrate was listed as a bug but people didn’t want that changed we created a wish to keep it. It substantially outvoted the bug report. I’m pretty sure that was a big reason why simrate didn’t get disabled at the same time as teleport.
If someone would like to keep mods restricted for career mode because he’s worried about his score and bugs then he can create a wish for that to counter this one. He can lay out his argument there. This one got more than 200 votes in 24 hours, we can see how much support he gets.
If he keeps on this thread, I’m going to mute him because he is just responding with disrespectful things like “rofol, are you kidding me?”
EDIT: Removed call out in case it’s against forum rules
You can actually import external assets on Xbox. The only limit is about scripting files or .exe ones. I don’t want to make a debate about semantics, but here is important or Xbox players could think it’s a technical limit. It is not, just a design/policy/business decision on Microsoft side regarding specifically MFS 2020/2024.
I think that somehow an “odd relationship” has crept in for some when it comes to the topic of mods.
Mods can be many things. Yes, some can be used to “cheat”. (Whether and to what extent this is relevant in a single-player game is a completely different debate. Exactly like the question of whether they should fix all the bugs first and address the question of what should or shouldn’t be allowed later - As I said, that’s a different debate.)
But I have the feeling that some people fundamentally believe that many here are ONLY into cheating when it comes to mods, and I think that’s wrong.
When I talk about mods, I don’t mean “tuned” planes that allow me to unlock everything super fast, but rather useful tools. Take [Shift] + [Z], for example. This is simply a handy bar where I can display various values such as altitude, IAS, TAS, wind, etc. Unfortunately, this is locked out in the career.
Just like “Gees 2.0”. A payware program that I use to monitor my landings. Ich can even get a replay of my touch down. Unfortunately, this is also locked out in the career.
Or “Toolbar Pushback”. Finally being able to change direction during pushback. In my opinion, this makes the game even more realistic. Also locked out.
I could list many more things here, but I think it’s clear what I’m trying to say.
Why the dev’s have collectively locked the door is therefore not clear to me.
I don’t think that’s the reason for this, though. Because there would be relatively simple ways and means to do that.
As an example, I’ll mention Snowrunner on the PS (!). Sony has a very, very, very critical attitude towards mods in games and as far as I know, mods have to go through Sony’s internal quality assurance before they are available on the PS. Yes, of course this also has to do with licenses from vehicle manufacturers, but letting the dev’s approve mods would be one way of dealing with it. But there are certainly many more.
And (yes, I’m finally coming to the end) on this topic, too, it would be nice if we all looked beyond our own noses here.
I keep reading “I like it the way it is” or “that wasn’t intended - so it can’t be” or “you want X,Y and Z and that for you’re all just cheaters ”… I’m getting tired of it.
When people make suggestions here, ask for something or simply point out something that is a problem for them - nobody wants to take “your” game/sim away from you. Some just have a different view of “their” game and want something to change. So a little acceptance of other opinions has never hurt.
I have spent some time here arguing against the people who are against this feature but didn’t put forth a good argument as to why I am for it. So, hopefully this will be one of my last posts on this thread.
The beauty of Microsoft Flight Simulator is the range of its user base. Users could be a 13 year old X-Box player, a 22 year old starting a career in aviation, a 25 year old killing some time, a 40 year old with a family and job but wants to burn a couple hours every evening or a 75 year old retired pilot with a full aviation sim setup. Career mode has the ability to be appealing to a wide range of players. However, at the moment, it seems they have really narrowed that range a lot.
That 13 year old will have trouble landing in crosswinds with an X-Box controller and no experience. That 75-year old is used to having a lot of tools available in the freeflight sim mode through mods that aren’t available now in career mode.
Broadening up the experience as much as possible will help to be as inclusive as possible for all players. This includes economy difficulties, weather settings, and, of course, mods.
The player base is so broad that mods really enable a difficult/impossible task of creating all the features for such a range of users. It’s almost certain the community will add to this game mode beyond what the developers have done.
As Alvarez says, this isn’t about cheating, it’s about opening up capabilities many of which are already available in freeflight. Some will make mods that people consider “cheats” but you can choose not to use them. This has worked for many games. It is my opinion that the number of people that will get more enjoyment out of this game by enabling mods is far more than those who may get upset. Some may grump about it a little but they will play the way they want to play and still enjoy it.
MSFS strength has always been that it has a wide appeal and wide range of usage modes (including mods). It seems logical to apply this strategy to career mode as well.
There is an option already in career mode for 3rd party aircraft. Just… no aircraft yet.
I think the plan has always been to allow Career Mode to use various mods and whatnot, as long as they are certified by MS/Asobo to work within the mode properly.
So far, their statements about keeping Career Mode encrypted seem to be about fairness. So it seems the main thing they want to avoid is allowing players to use mods to manipulate things like payment.
But I really do expect many mods will make it in. I think it is built for that. At least things like new planes and airports. As long as they meet Asobo’s Career Mode requirements.
Okay, that sounds good. I also want to emphasize again that I don’t want a plane that I can cheat with. I thought Jörg had once explicitly mentioned airplanes in this context.
If that’s the plan, I don’t want to complain about it either. But whether that’s the plan, we don’t know at the moment. (More on that below)
Unfortunately, that doesn’t help those who are plagued by game-breaking bugs and therefore need mods to progress at all. I can completely understand these players, even though I am not affected by bugs for the most part. But I accept that some of them are very frustrated at the moment.
Basically, unfortunately, the problem is that a lot of things simply aren’t finished yet or don’t work properly. All we have is this one snapshot of the current situation. We’ll probably all think very differently about it in a year’s time, but, again, I understand those who are upset about it now - and yes, sometimes I’m one of them.
Yeah, the issue of fairness… A lot has already been written about it. I don’t want to go off-topic here. Maybe I’ll open a topic about it when I find the time, but the way the mood is here at the moment, the (forum) mods are guaranteed to close the topic on the same day.
To summarize, I just want to emphasize again that I don’t think we’re doing any good beating each other’s heads in here.
I think the community has already made many good suggestions on how to keep the career mode attractive and appealing for all parties.
Now it would be the dev’s turn, but I think they have other things in mind right now.
But maybe we’ll be lucky and hear something before Christmas.
In software, a walled garden is an OS that limits flexibility to allow for better security and specificity.
Xbox is a walled garden. Apple’s brand of OSX and iOS are the OG walled garden. Xbox Games Studios produces games to be played within their walled garden on both PC and Xbox.
They try to keep things fair between PC and console in GAMES, and Career Mode is a gamified simulation mode.
This is one of those odd times where PCs sharing the online world with a console makes itself known.
You mentioned cheating and that is part of it. You aren’t allowed to cheat on console.
But it is also manipulation. By allowing certain things to be modified on console, it can become vulnerable to hacking or other manipulation. Consoles are walled gardens. Open modding breaks the wall and puts the garden in danger.
Xbox users had to wait an extra year for certain addons to become compatible because they were open to a vulnerability that would open Xbox to manipulation. They had to wall that off first, then Xbox got the garden.
It is not Xbox Game Studios practice to release first party software that makes someone’s console hardware vulnerable to manipulation, hacking, or breaking.
So why not do it on PC only?
Because that would potentially give PC players an advantage over console players, and it is Xbox Game Studios for Pete’s sake! They are going to side with the console. That truly is their cash cow these days over PC game sales.
If you play other first party games like Forza or Halo, you will see similar restrictions in place. Both to limit cheating, for system parity, and to protect folks on Xbox from vulnerabilities.
It is a whole mess of stuff, but the TLDR is Xbox Studios likes their games to share online world and files between PC and Xbox, and that will sometimes limit Xbox Studios PC titles in ways that other production companies don’t limit theirs.
The safety/security topic is a no-argument as they intended career mode ( also ) like a gateway to bring more players and third party devs on the marketplace. Of course, if you’re dealing with a comunity which has a strong modding culture ( which is something that i totally respect since i was a modder back in the days ) it’s difficult to sold the whole idea that a triple A sim/live service needs a lot of resources simply to keep it running. It’s so difficult that many pc players which now yell in tears don’t generate any revenue value buying stuff on external markets and using freeware mods. Which is fair, but you reach a point in which you should stop over-thinking: it’s just revenue value. It’s a reality
check. The most advanced and ambitious sim ever created comes at a price, deal with it or ask for a different business model like a subscription one. Just stop thinking you can have a sim like that without putting a dime to support it. It needs money from Gamepass/Microsoft, Xbox and PC players. To simply buying the client is not enough, you’ve a platform which cost like a big MMORPG and with a comunity that simply isn’t that big. The so called hardcore simmers which want to kick out casual ones are simply asking to kill the game or drastically reduce its scope. They don’t even realize it. You can talk about security checks, safety procedures or wallen gardens, anyone with a basic knowledge on software development and market sustenability knows that’s not the case. And it’s not the case, you probably know better than me. We take for granted that this sim will be with us for years while it’s not a rule, especially if you’re not profitable. Think about how much money they’re already burning by keeping close the marketplace. Think about how much money they lose from players which prefer to buy stuff out of the marketplace. Think about how much money they’re literally throwing out of the window by giving us for free four payware planes. Just consider you lucky if they’re trying to create more revenue value with career mode, leaving you free to do whatever you want in freeflight. Just don’t take it for granted because there’s a reason if on Xbox you can’t have freeware mods. And it’s not a safety check. In an perfect world, you would see PC and Xbox players just stick togheter helping the sim by building a better and growing comunity and we’re still here, every ■■■■ day, bashing each other heads. Do you know why the sim was released in such a bad state ? Because Microsoft is a corporate demon, of course. No wait, it’s because Xbox players, look how they downgraded the graphic ! And you already know the answer: the development wasn’t sustainable anymore. For once, stop asking what you want from the sim. Ask yourself what the sim needs to be simply alive. It’s a green button “buy more liveries” in career mode. One of the answers, at least. I heard many players describing Jorg in the last blog like really… sorry ? He was worried.
Thank you very much for the clear explanation. I think I have understood the concept.
The way you described it sounds like an argument against any kind of mods though
So yes, you are clearly writing this in terms of career but your reasoning can also be applied to free flight. It has the same problems on the console. With this in mind, all mods would have to be banned.
You know, I’ve been a PlayStation player for almost 30 years. In fact, I only bought a PC in 2021 because I really wanted to play MSFS 2020. Buying a second console didn’t make sense, so buying a PC was the logical choice, at least for me. If they had also released the flight simulator on PS, things might have been different.
So, as mentioned before, Sony is very restrictive in terms of mods and software on their consoles as a whole. Of course, they also don’t want you to download some stuff that is able to brick your console.
These limitations are very unfortunate because there are games that are really enhanced by mods (e.g. Cyberpunk 2077) or they change the game concept in total (e.g. GTA V with LCPFR) just to name a few. Neither of these can be modded on the PS.
But we console gamers are also aware of this.
Today, almost everyone under 30 has grown up with either PC or console (At least in the states of the G7). They know that both have their pros and cons.
Every console player knows that console games cannot be modded, or only to a limited extent. You either accept that or switch to PC.
There’s no fairness in that. There was never anything like fairness.
So to use the argument of fairness is a bit one-sided. At the moment, consoles are opening up more and more to mods. Examples of console games that work excellently with mods include Snowrunner, Farming Simulator and Baldur’s Gate 3.
You don’t create fairness by banning or restricting something established on one platform. It creates more fairness if you allow it on the other platform. At least in my opinion.
So again, I understand what you mean and also your arguments.
In my opinion, however, the system is fundamentally unfair and you don’t create fairness by excluding mods for the PC with reference to the console players.
I’m also sure this has nothing to do with security measures, fairness, or any disadvantage to Xbox.
Microsoft Flight Simulator has a dedicated SDK/API for modding and creating new content of all types. In MSFS 2020, they actively supported modding and addon creation by providing people with the necessary tools. Not once did anyone from Microsoft or Asobo mention Xbox or any shady reasons to argue against modding. I repeat: MSFS provided the tools for everyone to do so.
I think Viviansen’s opinion is heading in the right direction.
The truth is:
Whales will stay whales. Opening up the game to casual players will simply bring in more revenue. Even among the casual player base, there are some whales.
If you don’t know what a whale is google: “whale in gaming”.
As long as they continue to provide high-quality, paid content, they will earn money.
A new DLC featuring special aircraft and missions?
Study-level aircraft?
Detailed, specific flight training modules?
Character skins?
Maybe even boats and ships or other vehicles? I would buy a boat and there are also mods for MSFS 2020 already.
The list goes on and on—and yes, we will buy it. We may not spend €500+ or $500+ like the whales do, but casual players will also buy plenty of content.
There are enough opportunities to monetize MSFS.
They can take the lazy route with boosters and credits in the marketplace, or Microsoft/Asobo can get creative. If they choose the latter, we players will gladly welcome additional content that provides real value.
However, neither the Xbox argument nor the stability and security argument is valid.
Everything being asked for here already existed in MSFS 2020, and there were never any issues with it.
All I want to do is use 3rd party apps like bushtalk radio
Can’t even use that (and the associated landmarks addon) which is such a shame because I just want to fly in career mode while learning about what’s around me
It would make the experience flying long cargo so much more memorable if I could look down and learn about that city that’s below me, or some random bridge
Also this choice of locking mods pretty much killed wonderful mods like skypark, which I think at one point was meant to supplement career mode
And simple immersive mods like stick and rudder studios real ATC chatter? Nope, can’t use it either
How about some official built in features like the in-game flight replay mod? Sorry can’t use that either
I can go on but I think the point is made, please reconsider Asobo
What makes the darn difference if mods were available its you choice weather you use them or not. NOTHIN you can do in career mode can make it unfair. Whos career is it ?. Right now its Asobo career it darn sure aint mine. Career mode should allow one to play it the way you/I want to play it.
What score is there in career? For the challenges where people compete against each other, sure allowing any plane makes no sense. But a purely single player career being so restrictive makes no sense either.
I agree that the career mode is not competitive so using mods would not be hampering fairness. I think some helper mods / automation scripts on the fleet management would be really really nice, but I would not attempt to modify the money directly since I could easily lose motivation if I do so.
